In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about how impostor syndrome undermines our confidence and keeps up playing small in the workplace. This week, I talk with Tracy Pruzan-Roy, a high-performance leadership coach, who shares her story of rising from entry-level to senior executive in the media and entertainment industry. She talks about the ways in which impostor syndrome showed up in her career and shares how she now supports leaders to overcome self-doubt and reach their full potential.
About My Guest
Tracy is a Certified Executive + High-Performance Leadership Coach. With a background in media/entertainment, she worked her way up the ladder from individual contributor to Senior Vice President at major corporations. During this time, she counseled, mentored, and challenged her team daily. Now as a coach, she brings this energy and expertise to her clients and her executive background gives her a unique advantage to her coaching. She guides leaders and emerging leaders to step up to the next level by helping them identify and leverage their strengths, conquer their inner critic, use their voice and rediscover their purpose, all in service of achieving both their career and personal goals.
Tracy resides in West Orange, NJ, just outside of NYC, with her husband and son. Her favorite activities outside of coaching include rooting for the Baltimore Orioles, traveling, and attending as many live concerts as humanly possible.
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Transcript:
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Tracy, you and I have been chatting behind the scenes. And I'm so excited to continue the conversation. I'd love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Thank you so much, Kim, for having me. I'm so happy to be here with you today. Yeah, my name is Tracy Pruzan-Roy. I'm a certified high-performance leadership coach. And I actually come from the corporate world, I spent 20 years rising through the ranks, and media and entertainment companies like Sony Pictures, and Viacom and NBC Universal, and a 2020, I made a huge shift, I know that we have that in common, I left it COVID hit all the things. And I worked with a coach to figure out what I wanted to do something wasn't right. Something wasn't sitting well. And, and I realized and recognize that what I love most about my corporate life was the people. And it was mentoring and helping and watching people grow and guiding them and all those things that, that frankly, was done for me as well. Very lucky to have amazing mentors in my life. So I decided I wanted to do what my coach did. And I dug straight in and I got certified and I've been coaching for three years. And I work with all different types of people from manager level all the way up to senior executives, and, and all different industries to so I while I came up in media and entertainment. I work with people in so many different vast world that I know so little about, like transportation and finance and tech and all these things. But at the end of the day, excuse me, at the end of the day, I'm coaching the person and not the problem. And so it all is it's actually really nice for me, I'm learning a lot now outside of my, my old industry. So that's my, my nutshell.
Kim Meninger
That's great, Tracy and I feel the same way I feel so privileged to be able to learn about all these different places that you don't get to see when you're in one.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Lately, it's so eye-opening and it's so world-building to I think find it so fascinating. I love that you appreciate that.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I want to go back to the you made it really far. Right You were you were there for a while you made it to a very senior level. Yeah. What was it like for you? What were some of the experiences you were having that were making you question whether this is where you wanted to stay? Yeah,
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
I, um, well, a few things. I you know, throughout my career, which I was very good at research, I really loved what I did there. I, I but I did feel often that I was working too much I was you know, my whole life, I had been either lived in New York City, or I live outside of New York City or commuted into New York. You know, my husband and I had a child in 2010. And he was in daycare starting at three months old, and had a babysitter and we never had meals together during the week and the hustle and grind. And the constant I was just actually talking about this with a client this morning. That work was just 24/7 even when not working, it was constantly going on and making a visualization of it rolling around in my mind and my brain and there was, there was no off of the hamster wheel. And at the same time, I also just with COVID and being home and I knew I wanted something different. And it couldn't be the same way. And I'm very fortunate I have a husband who has a great job. And you know, I'm able to make the shift and, and do what I love. And it's still really hard work. It's different kinds of hard work. But I've loved every second of it. So it makes it feel, it makes it feel less stressful. I'm just my husband says all the time, you just don't seem to have the same amount of stress that you used to. And that's what I was looking for. So that's how I made that, how I made that shift and decided that I wanted to do that. And again, it is still 24/7 but it's such a different, it's such a different feeling.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. I know exactly what you're talking about. Right? It's a very different kind of 20 hours.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Very different, very different. Oh, yeah, exactly.
Kim Meninger
You know, you, you as soon as you started talking about your industry, and I know nothing about it, just like we were talking about what we learned. In my mind, I got this. I just My first reaction was like, gosh, it must have been hard to be a woman in that space. Like, what was it like to be an executive as a woman trying to manage a family dealing with big egos like what's where are we right now in terms of women in the workplace and trying to tackle these challenges?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
If so, I love this question Kim and what I felt as a woman in that industry, it's funny that my last position as an SVP I believe almost I think the majority of our my senior staff was females our boss was male, but the majority of us were female. And for me, I was noticing that and noticing how come, how come we're not at that that next you know that next level. But the other thing is that those hard, this hard positions of when do I use my voice? Are they going to think I'm coming on too strong? Am I going to be judged? Am I going they'd be judged if I stay home to take my child to the doctor? Which is typically, if you're in a, in the kind of household I am, typically the, the mom's role not always obviously. But those kinds of things I would, I would hate it, I would hate to have to text or call my boss in the morning and say, I'm really sorry, but my kids home sick I need to work from home or because it just felt icky. Even though it's my family, of course. And you know, of course, it shouldn't be icky. That's my, that's my number one priority. But there was always that tension for me personally, of where do I draw that line? You know, when do I use my voice? And how do I use it? Also? Do I use it the way I want to? Or do I need to think before I speak, of all the things that can feel, I believe, and I see it with my clients more challenging when you're facing, when you're facing those, those gender, those gender roles, and the stereotypes?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and it just adds a whole other layer of energy and stress that, you know, it's not to say that men don't have their own stress, I totally understand that. But it just when you have to calibrate everything that you say, and just in your mind, think about what are the potential consequences if my tone is this versus that it's just, it's exhausting.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Exhausting, exhausting. And it's so, so interesting because one of my biggest challenges all the way through from entry level all the way to SVP was speaking up in meetings, I had this imposter saying to me, you're gonna get laughed at, you're gonna get judged. Nobody's gonna think you're smart. I had. And by the way, this is coming from a person that as I just said, who rose from entry level all the way to so there's a reason, right? It's not like I'm stupid it is yet but my, my, my head was telling me a different story. And that meant that added an extra layer of stress for me. And it added extra angst and extra lack of sleep, all the things that accompany that. And it's, it's just not, it's not fun, and it's not productive at all, so hard for me.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. And it's hard to feel good about what you're doing, right? When you have that voice that's constantly criticizing everything that you're doing, and you're comparing yourself to other people. And it's hard to go home at the end of the day and feel proud and feel accomplished, right?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely. And it's exhausting. But on top of that, with the commute, so all of it's so tiring. And it's and it's how do I prefer? How do I show up in a different way tomorrow? And then all of the stresses that come along with, you know, fire drills and all the things that happen day to day, you have to, you have to constantly adapt and bounce around and figure out what's right. And it's difficult to adapt, it's difficult to sort of be able to settle down and say, All right, let me take a step back. Let me there's no time. It's very, very hard.
Kim Meninger
So one thing that I'm curious about because you and I have both chosen to remove ourselves from those situations, but we also coach people who are still in those worlds. How do you think about helping somebody who is not going to leave? Either they, you know, want to stay there and to leave? Like, what are some of the things that you work with your clients on? help them navigate that very real environment?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
More I should add, and you I'm sure you, you probably, you may feel similarly I don't want to put words in your mouth. But my, my journey is my journey, right? I, you and I both coached so many people that love this, they love the high pressure, they love it. And awesome, that's amazing. And I'm so glad because we get to work with those people. But there is there can really be these, these moments of, you know, the people pleaser, I am a number one people pleaser. So when I see that in my clients, I think I reflect on what I went through. And I asked them, you know, what boundaries? Are you setting here? I hear all the time. For instance, oh, my calendar, I can't I can't find time to meet with my, my team because my calendar is booked from, you know, 8 am to 7 pm. And, and I say okay, and all those meetings you have to go to Well, no, I guess you know, not really, I could probably send someone my but yeah, and those little steps, right? It's just taking a little step and figuring out what doesn't feel right, which I never, never did for myself. What doesn't feel right, and how do I make it? How do I turn it up? How do I make it feel better? What can I do? What's one thing I can implement, to take this make this pressure a little less? And, and because I always say saying no to one thing means you're saying yes to something else is saying no to the one meeting me just saying yes to getting 30 minutes in your day back to get some things off of your housekeeping, whatever it is, but being able to be able to take a step back and I believe I'll tell you can I ask for coaching all the way through never got it? And I truly believe if I had had someone like me or you to help me see this, I wouldn't have felt the way I felt for so long. And I think that being able to take those steps and say what is what's in front of me and what am I, what am I constantly letting happen over and over and over that doesn't feel right that doesn't sit right. And again, making those tweaks is really what I, what I advise looking at conflate those.
Kim Meninger
And I think that's such a good point. Because when you're in it, you're in the thick of it and you don't have the, you're not zooming out, or you don't have the benefit of an objective perspective, it's so hard to know, what is flexible, right? Like, we have to take everything for granted as Oh, someone put a meeting on my calendar, I have to go. It's just this automatic response we have we don't necessarily recognize our own power or choice in the situation.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely. I'll absolutely agree. And it does. And I think to your point earlier about being female anyway, for me, if I say no, they're there, what are they going to think of me and they're going to think I'm, you know, I'm too good or that or that I think I'm too good. I should say that I don't care, or all of those things that happen that go on in our heads that we know aren't true. But we project what others may think about us, when we really don't have any, any sense that that's, that's going to be true or not. So it's all these all these stories sort of snowball and become too big, and it's too hard to handle them.
Kim Meninger
Can I think about this a lot, too, that we are, we're really good problem solvers when it comes to the work itself. But when it comes to something that we may interpret as a reflection on our capabilities, or our competence, then we behave in much more inefficient ways. So for example, if I'm, if I'm leading a project, I will be really good at finding the inefficiencies and figuring out what to prioritize. But when it comes to my own calendar, right, it feels like a sign of weakness to say, No, this isn't the right meeting for me, or I don't have time for this, when in actuality, right, that's optimizing your role? And does she do the business?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Oh, my gosh, yes. And you know, what else can I think it also can offer opportunities for our teams, right? If we have a junior member, that may be someone who either knows, whatever that meeting's going to be about, or needs more training in that whatever the situation is, by allowing them giving them that even if they're just sitting there, there don't have to talk, maybe they do, but just to have a face in the meeting, give them something else, and again, gives you that time back to be able to say, alright, what let me take a beat, let me take a breath, maybe I'll even grab a coffee for 10 minutes. And, and, and see what's in front of me and see how I can organize and, and move things forward. I completely agree with you. There's so many other things that happen when we're able to put those boundaries in place, or, or turn a meeting down. I mean, that is a boundary turning meeting down, what have you, and it's it can afford so much more growth opportunities and a little less stress, which is what we're all here, for example, anyway.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. I love what you say too about giving opportunities to our teams because a lot of times we think we're protecting our team, but we're really depriving them of growth opportunities. And, you know, if you jump in, and you do it all yourself, it's so interesting, because I hear this from, I'll hear from the manager that they don't want to burden their team and then I'll hear from the employee, well, they're not giving me enough challenge and opportunity, they're not letting me grow, right. So there's this tension.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Every time there's the I can do it better myself, there's the, you know, it'll take too much time, which is, which is totally true, yet think about what the ultimate outcome is, and how much time you will eventually get back. There's the, you know, what else can there's the as we talked about earlier, you know, I come for, especially for new managers, I come from an individual contributor mindset, I've never been taught how to delegate, I don't know how to do this, or I've been elevated above appear. And, and they're gonna, they're gonna hate me if I ask them to do something because we were at the same level before, there's so many things that go into it. And the idea here is to just really think about what are the opportunities for your team, when what are the opportunities for yourself, and again, just to make things a little easier for everybody, and growth, growth, movement, or movement?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and that's such a good point, too, about not being properly trained, and expectations aren't said, and then you've got all of these interpersonal dynamics at play, I don't want to let my team down. I don't want this person to be mad at me. Those are projecting all of these thoughts on to other people.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
I have a client, who I've been working with for a while, who I adore and he, he's in charge of a team and he is a relatively new role. Not that new but within a year, and, and he said to me last week, or last week, a week ago, he said, he said I just there's stuff I just don't like doing and I feel so bad. He's senior, he's very senior. I just feel so bad. asking my team to do I said, well, first of all, I said that's part of it. Right? Sometimes we have to do things we don't like doing it. But I said, you know, they don't like doing it. He said, Well, no, I just assumed they don't because I don't like I said, have you, have you asked them and he told me email me later. He said, Oh my God, this was great. They love doing this. It was such a weight off. But he did exactly what you just said he projected, because of how he felt about it. He felt guilt around it, right? I mean, there were so many emotions that came with it, before he even have a conversation with them. And so it's those little things where we, again, we, we are so good at telling stories, or our brands are so good at it. Yeah, I know, when it comes to other people, no problem. But when it comes to ourselves, oh, it can be a minefield.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. And I think part of it is creating the space to reflect on what the stories are that we're telling ourselves so that we can decide whether or not that's an effective message, right? And I think that so often, we're moving so quickly, especially with all of the demands that are put on our time, we accept everything at face value, because it's just faster to do it that way, as opposed to being able to say, Wait a second, is there another way to think about this? Might I be projecting right now?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Maybe? Yeah, maybe they're, they're very welcoming. That's something that I that's another thing I do with my, with my clients is when those stories come up, and I say and I said, What's it? What's it protecting you from? What's it holding you back from? For me with the meetings, right? We'll take myself as an example, when I had those, those moments of, if I speak up in this meeting, and say, my idea I'm gonna get laughed at, if it's protecting me from getting laughed out if I don't speak up, and it's also holding me back from possibly actually having a good idea, or possibly maybe doing something that's forward moving for the company. And if I don't say it, I guess I'll never know. And really, the likelihood of being laughed at in a meeting, can you imagine? I mean, it's small, I'm sure it's happened. It's very, very minimal. And the other thing is, as you just pointed out, what evidence do I have to the contrary, whatever evidence, so when I every time I got promoted? Why are they I'm so excited, I love this. I'm so deserve it. Why are they promoting me? What, why don't you know, who am I to be getting this promotion? And so talking about our thinking about or writing down the evidence of why I deserved it, and why I met was meant to have a seat at the table, etc, would bring that feeling down a little bit. But you know, wasn't an automatic response. Oh, why are they promoting me? Oh, well, here's why, you know, what's your point, you're so busy, you can't always do that. And so remembering the evidence, that proves the other story that proves all the reasons why that imposter is wrong, can be very, very beneficial, and can take you out of, you know, take you into a much lighter place.
Kim Meninger
Do you have recommendations on a practice for that? Because it feels like it has to be intentional in there's so little time, or at least we choose not to use our time in this way, that it feels almost like you need a structure in order to manage this.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely. And it's not, um, it's not anything where I would say okay, at at 8am, before you, you know, make your coffee, journal out all the things that you're imposters, that's not what it is, but I think when you notice it come up, you can quickly ask yourself, is this true or not? And you may say, yes, definitely true. Cool. Let me, let me table this when they come back to this when I'm on my commute home when I'm listening to some music or whatever, to cooking dinner. And let me come back to it. Let me put into my phone put a reminder to remind myself to actually ask the questions around it. Because if we just let it go, if we say oh, the imposter just showed up, and it's really getting to me, and we don't actually address it, it's gonna stay and the imposter is with us, unfortunately, lives with us. All. It's not going anywhere. But what I think we can do is change its narrative, have a conversation with it. I actually have a persona for my imposter and she's on Genie, Ferris Bueller's sister from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. And because she, I think she loves me, but she's like, you know, she's a little bit competitive and kind of wants to hold me back a little bit. And so it's nice for me because I actually can be like, Oh, my God, you're being obnoxious. And let's get to the, let's get to the, you know, the meat of this. And but it's not, it's not immediate for me either. You know, sometimes the imposter comes up, and I'm like, Oh, this is really holding me back. I have a coach. I'll tell her about it. We work through it together too. Or sometimes I say, Hold on, and I have my little journal next to me. And, and, and I will write things out to remind myself. But I think that just making sure that you're aware of when you notice it, to make sure that you're not ignoring it. Because there's definitely no it's keeping us in a comfort zone at the end of the day, keeping us where we are.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. And I like that approach to noticing. And then it may not be the right time to go deeper into the analysis, but to at least flag it and just yeah, just don't let it slip away. Because these are really important moments. And then, then you get to decide, what do I keep and what do I let go of so that when I go into the next situation, right, I'm not really creating the same pattern over and over again.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely. I think the, you know, it's so, it's so nice to be in comfort zones are comfortable for a reason. And if we stay there And that's okay then cool. But if we do want to be moving forward, if we do want to feel it be feeling less stressed, we need to be addressing it. And I am, you know, I have, I always say this to the people I work with, which is that I'm not trying to get anybody, including myself, actually, I have to remind myself this to get from point A to point Z in you know, in a day, that's not, that's not the goal, my, my goal is to get from point A to point B in a reasonable amount of time, see how that is, see how that feels, analyze what went well within, and then maybe we can work on getting to point C. And so the idea with the imposter, especially right? When we think when it comes up, it's not to say go away, I don't want to hear from you. And I'm gonna be, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this big thing. That can be it. But if that feels too big, how do we break it down? And how do we how do we, again, come up with the evidence, figure out what we need to be feeling that we can take that step outside our comfort zone, and have a little bit of, have a little bit of growth?
Kim Meninger
I think that's a really good point, too, because there is so much uncertainty in our world. And if we are tied to very rigid expectations of what we quote-unquote, should be doing and when, when the world intervenes in ways that would always well, then it throws us off our game. And we ended up telling ourselves that something wrong with me, as opposed to being able to flexibly adjust in the moments.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
That such great point Kim, you're absolutely right, it is really we do we put so much pressure on ourselves so much. And there's so many circumstances that we can't control what is in our control. And maybe we start with that, and then worry about the other things at another time if we have to.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, absolutely. I'm a big believer in that, too. It's like, we there's no point in worrying about things you can't control.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Definitely, there's literally nothing you can do. Yeah. 100% agree.
Kim Meninger
So one thing I think about a lot, and I think is more challenging for women, is let's say we reach a point where we just don't know what to do are we don't we've reached the limits of our own ability to solve this problem asking for help. And letting our manager know, this is not working the way it is, is such a scary conversation for so many. What are your thoughts on that?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yeah, that's, I love this one. It was scary for me to I, I definitely want it to be perceived as perfect. And as you and I know, that's not possible. There's no such thing. And I, it can feel really vulnerable to ask questions, ask for help. And at the end of the day, if you don't know something, and you're not going to be able to learn on your own, what are your, what are your alternatives? And ask yourself that what's going to happen if I don't ask this question, what's going to happen if I don't get the help I need? Well, I'm never going to know and this project is never going to take off the ground. And they're going to, they're going to, you know, be wondering why we're not meeting deadlines, all the things that could possibly happen, or maybe not ask a question and get a little bit of guidance. And, again, it can feel scary to me, I think that if and by the way, if your manager hopefully your manager is the right person to ask, and you there's a great relationship there. You never know what the situation is. So maybe you find someone you do feel comfortable with. If it's not that person who may be able to give you some guidance, or some, some information that you didn't have before. There's no way, there's no way as far as I can tell, unless you do a ton of research, you can figure everything out on your own, that that's going to happen. And if you're doing all the research on your own, there's your time gone. Yes, there's you're not you're not finding time for anything else, or to keep other things moving. So while there's vulnerability, it's also authentic. And that's that for me, that's the key.
Kim Meninger
I think you're so right. And I love what you just said about all the time wasted, right? Because just like you said earlier saying no to one thing means saying yes to another saying yes to all of this research, because I'm afraid to ask for help. Means I'm saying no to developing my team. I'm saying no to other strategic priorities. And so I think we're so we're so prone to think about the immediate loss or the immediate threat, right? It's the Oh no, I'm gonna fail or Oh, no, my boss is gonna hate me or whatever the case may be that everything becomes magnified around that one thing, but we don't necessarily play it out to Okay, but what do I lose? If I change this equation a bit, right?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yeah, what sort of gain what sort of losing what's the gain of that cost benefit? And I think if you can really look at I still agree with you, if you can look at it from that standpoint. It's going to take so much again, so much the weight off of our shoulders, and just say okay, I do have the support and you know, they probably didn't have all the answers when they were in my at my desk either. And think of it that way. They always know everything. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. We all have Learning curves, and we all need the help to get there. I always say I would not have been, you know, been able to, to move through my career the way I did without that support. And without that guidance, I, there's no way I would have learned everything in media and entertainment, which is changing all the time. There's, there's absolutely no way. So it, it can, again, feels vulnerable, but it also has a weight off if you could do it.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And I think about it too, is that because I worked in tech, which is a similar kind of ever-changing? Oh, yeah. Right. And you just when you think you've got it, the next thing comes along, and you got to start over. But I think that there's some liberation in that if we just sort of accept that. I can't know everything, because it's always changing, as opposed to the deception that we can know everything if we just work harder, or try harder. And so I think for me reframing that mindset to be one of yeah, it's just the fact that I will never know everything. And that is, it's the design of the system, right? In order for us to stay innovative, we're going to have to be constantly moving in a direction, that's an unknown. And when we can just accept that, then it frees us to not be perfect to not know completely agree.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
And I think that that makes a good leader, too. Right? A good leader, in my eyes is someone who, you know, my, my last, my last manager NBCU was incredible. So great. And so did he know, I was in research, which, by the way, that's a whole other podcast, because nobody knows what I did. But, but he you know, so he didn't grow up in research. You know, he knew we did television ratings and things like that. He understood what the rating was, but did he know how to create all the research? No, that's what he had me for. And, you know, so a good leader will, will know that we'll know who the good people are, who can, who can fill in the blanks. And so, you know, they ask questions. So I know that if my leader ask questions, it's probably okay for me to ask questions. It's not probably okay. It is okay for me to ask questions as well.
Kim Meninger
That's really good, too. And I think that's a great example because one of the big, challenging areas that I see is when I start to manage somebody who has more expertise in a particular area than I do, who am I to manage this person? Right?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yes. And that happens, right, with when you offend. And when you Yeah, you get put into these bigger roles in areas that you may not have had any exposure to before or minimal exposure to before, oh, my gosh, it can feel so vulnerable for the leader and to be able to say, Hey, I actually don't have a lot of experience here. I really want to learn it, it's happened to me, I'm sure it's happened to you, I really want to learn it, please show me and, and let's be in this together. And you know, and I remember doing it with my last my last role where I got a vertical that I hadn't had much exposure to I did say to the leader, I said, you know, bear with me. And you know, if I ask something that feels dumb to you, please no, it's not done to me, and we will get there together. And fortunately, she was very understanding and wonderful. But you know, those can, those can feel challenging to, to your point, it felt super vulnerable to come in and say, as someone that you report to, for me to say to you I need to learn from you is really tough. But at the end of the day, it does open those doors, and it makes us better. It just makes us better as leaders to put that out there. It does. And
Kim Meninger
I think too, I mean, there's definitely a vulnerability that comes with that. But there's also some confidence that comes with it too, right to be able to say, I own the fact that I don't have this area of expert expertise, yet I trust that I have enough experience to lead you and to say, here's what I need from you. And here's what I can do in turn, right?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely. When there's something that we all bring to the table and it doesn't have to be the exact, you know, pinpoint science of whatever that thing is. But we do bring our expertise. I love what you just said. I think it's extremely important to be able to come into that knowing that I may not know everything, but I know that I'm in this role for a reason.
Kim Meninger
Yes, exactly. Because then otherwise, we're making up stories we're telling this person doesn't respect me. I have nothing to offer.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely, absolutely. Oh, God, those stories are the worst.
Kim Meninger
So what else are you seeing out there anything else that you're noticing that you're spending a lot of time talking about?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yeah. When I'm spending a lot of the most, the things that come up a lot for, for my clients that I see are what we've talked about. It's I'm not sure why I'm in this role, as you know, what did they see in me and the confidence issues? There's also the, the time management issues are difficult as well. I will say the relationship building has is something that I think because we have so little time, because there's so much on our plates, finding the time to take a step back and say, You know what, I am really interested in what this business unit is doing. I don't know a lot about it. Again, speaking of that theme of asking questions, I know my team could might be able to help them. I need to know more. How do I build those relationships with those teams? How do I get to know them more and especially it can be also challenging when there's people that Maybe they'll be more difficult to get to know, etc. But how do we have those feedback as well, I think can be is very challenging for a lot similar to the delegation, right? How do I get feedback to this person, they're not going to want to hear what I have to say they're gonna, you know, especially if it's developmental feedback. So those are the things I work a lot with clients on? How do we make those feel better? How do we make those feel easier? How can we maybe find time to ask someone to have coffee? Or maybe do a trade one on ones on our business units and teach each other something that might be interesting? How do I find, how do I find the right way to get feedback to my new direct report, who maybe has never experienced developmental feedback before, all those things that can feel so challenging, yet have to be done again, only things that make us better leaders, make us feel more confident and make our teams feel better about what they're doing? Giving them goals, things to work towards, and to know that you're there for them to know that you're there to be cheering them on and to be helping them. And that the feedback is for a reason. So those two areas, I think, are the biggest ones that, that I see. And that I, that I find that my clients anyway, when they're able to tackle them say, Oh, that wasn't so bad. So it but it's about figuring out how to do it.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I always joke that the hardest part about work is other people, right? Because, you know, getting the job done, assuming you have some training is the easy part. It's navigating all of the different personalities and different, you know, insecurities that we all bring into the workplace. And so everything that you just touched on too, is just an example of why it's so important for us to connect as humans, because even though we think we don't have time to reach out to somebody in a different department, or we don't have time to sit down with somebody from our own team, the time that we spent cleaning up the mess from not taking that time up front is so much longer and less efficient. And so I think part of it is just an excuse. I think time is often an excuse, like, oh, I don't have time for that. So I don't have to get out of my comfort zone, I don't have to do that scary thing that I've been putting off, right? But if I, if I can look at this as an investment. And this time is an investment in these relationships. And I'm gonna, once these relationships are in place, we're going to accelerate the business.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yes, Kim, and I think we spend so much time thinking about well, I see this anyway, I think that that many spend so much time thinking about how to manage up, that we sometimes neglect the areas of managing out and managing down and so and so that's to your point, without those that it's all one piece of the puzzle, it all makes a makes a sphere. And when you're missing even one of those aspects of it, the teams are going to suffer. And frankly, we're gonna suffer because to your point, we're gonna have more stress, which is gonna be more on our plates.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And I think, you know, we're creatures of habit, it's hard to change, we get scared or don't know how but, but I think just taking even small steps, like even if you just say, I'm just gonna pick one person.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
I'd say absolutely agree. I'm going to pick one person, I'm going to reach out to them today. And I'm going to have a coffee with them. And the next two weeks, so easy. And again, the worst thing that happens is, you know, the person can't do it, there's no, there's really very little risk to finding that one person. I still agree. So agree. I love that.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and then once you get the positive reinforcement from that, then you're motivated to do the next one. The first one is always the hardest.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
The hardest, the hardest, I will tell you, I have a list of like contacts that I tried to reach out to, and, and I have them feared. And I tell I give this to my clients too. When it feels with networking, right? I have the ones that are super easy, you know, no problem. I have no problem reaching out to this person. I have the twos that are like, okay, it's a little scarier, but the ones went great. They went great. I'm gonna pick one to one number two to reach out to it's the backhoe and you know, and it does make us feel it. Once you get that little bit of success. It makes it so much so much easier. And there's so little left. Okay, if you don't get back to me, they don't get back to me. Oh, well, you know, on to the next person. But to your point, you've just ripping up that band-aid for the first one. Oh, that's tough.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I love that tearing approach because I could see that applying to other things too when we were talking earlier about speaking up in a meeting right like maybe you don't practice it your board meeting or in the meeting with all the people write this on your team where you feel safer and then the more success you have the more comfortable you feel taking that baby step at the next level.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
I love that Kim manage those table stakes is so cool I love that idea. That's really powerful.
Kim Meninger
This is a such a great conversation. Tracy. I would love to let people know where can they find you if they want to learn more about what you're doing.
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Absolutely you can go to my website and I know it'll be spelled out in the on the on the site, but it's my name, which is www dot TracyPruzanRoy.com. Don't worry about spelling it. I won't spell it here because it will take too long. And you could find me on LinkedIn and if anyone you know wants to reach out, please feel free. I do workshops, I do. facilitations. And I do one on one, coaching, leadership coaching. So that's, that's me, please reach out.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And like you said, the links will be in the show notes as well for anybody who wants to access them. And thank you so much for what you're doing. Tracy, you bring a really important perspective, having walked in the shoes of a lot of the people that are experiencing these challenges today. And I just think it's always so helpful to hear, you know, what, what's the lived experience and what can we do about it?
Tracy Pruzan-Roy
Yeah, thank you so much. I couldn't be happier to be able to share this and so happy to have this time with you. And I agree with you. It's so important to be talking about it because when we keep it all in, we don't we have no idea how to get out of it. So thank you for having this platform. It's, it's fantastic.