In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about feeling too young at work. Have you ever felt too young at work? Maybe people thought they were complimenting you by pointing out how young you look. Or they made condescending comments that made you feel different or unwelcome. My guest this week is Leslie Alvarez, community management leader and author of the book, “When Life Gives You Lemons, Make Tamales”. Here Leslie shares her experience of regularly being made to feel too young. Having graduated from high school at 15, built a career in her teens and had her first child at 20, Leslie has consistently encountered people and situations that have made her feel too young. We also explore how she’s learned to manage these insecurities and what she recommends to others with similar experiences.
About My Guest
Leslie has been a community management leader for over 26 years. A native Texan and single mother of two, Arianna (26 years) and AJ (23 years), their small family of 3 has lived through multiple challenges that have brought her to her knees. But she believes in the magic of a big comeback, and that plotting the comeback begins while you are on the floor.
Leslie holds a BBA from Texas Woman’s University, having graduated as an adult learner at the age of 41. She hopes to help those struggling, recognize that they are not alone and their comeback strategy is in their hands.
Leslie self-published a short story of her life offering various tips on overcoming both imposter syndrome and anxiety by pushing through adversity on Amazon titled, When Life Gives You Lemons, Make Tamales. Scott served on the board of the International Leadership Association, Association of Leadership Educators, and Management and Organizational Behavior Teaching Society. He was named an ILA Fellow by the International Leadership Association in 2021.
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Connect with Leslie:
Website: www.lesliealvarez.com
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Leslie. I'm so excited to have you here. I can't wait to jump in. I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Leslie Alvarez
Thank you so much, Kim. I'm so grateful that you're having me here on your show. My name is Leslie Alvarez, and I have been a victim of imposter syndrome forever. It seems like I actually the Cliff Notes version of my, of my life is, I graduated high school when I was 15, got into the world of business and started working at 16, and was consistently always the youngest person in the room. That, combined with my lack of college education, you know, just really made me feel, even though I kept excelling, to be less than qualified, or to feel like I needed to try a little harder to be able to be successful and to prove myself to people. So, you know, I even when I raised my kids, I was the youngest mom in the room. I was, you know, I had my daughter at 20, and so here I was bringing her to kindergarten at the age of 25 and I'm the youngest mom. And, you know, I looked more like I was her older sister, you know. So it just, it just, it's always, it seems to have permeated my whole life, I guess, because I moved so quickly in my youth that it just kind of, you know, it kind of went, it went through a whole series of personal, business career, all of that, it just seems to have affected me.
Kim Meninger
So how did you graduate at 15?
Leslie Alvarez
I actually left public school after eighth grade and did homeschool, and I would just, I was that kid that on a Saturday, would just stay home and knock out all of Algebra Two in one weekend and just be done, and then not do any school work for a week or two, and then knock out all of English too. And I just knocked it all out and got done in a matter of a couple of years. And I was and then I was done.
Kim Meninger
Wow. And then what was you what? What was your career like? Like? What were you doing?
Leslie Alvarez
So when I turned 16, I got a job at a law firm where I was the assistant to the senior partner. I ran everyone's payroll. That was awkward, because, again, all these 30-40-year-old women, paralegals and people are looking at me like, you know, who does she think she is? Right? Like I'm controlling office supplies and their paychecks and know how much money they made. But I was only 16-17, I left the legal side when I was 19, and I moved into property management, community association management specifically so I manage HOAs and condominium associations. And by the time I was 21. I was managing one of the former Bush President Bush's community and, you know, very high-end communities. And I was so young that, you know, people would make comments all the time about my age and that I look suit too young and, and I would just say, Oh, I'm legal in every way that matters for this conversation. Like, you know, I would just try to blow it off and make that, make a joke about it. But the reality of it is, is, you know, I was very insecure about it because, you know, I was surrounded by 30-year-olds and 40-year-olds and people with degrees on the wall and everything. And I'm and I'm telling these millionaires, often times what they can and what kind of, you know, tree they can plant in front of their house, you know. So, I mean, it was just kind of, you know, I had to, I had to step it up and really be more assertive, I guess.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, which is really hard. I think it's really hard for women in general, especially you're talking about lots of different ways in which he felt different from people, which is always a trigger of imposter syndrome, but feeling younger, that much younger than the people around you. When you have a position of authority in many ways, right? You have the ability to say no to them, that's got to be a really intimidating situation to be in.
Leslie Alvarez
Absolutely. Absolutely, you know? And there's so many different triggers to imposter syndrome. And I think I kind of had all of them. I had the I was a super smart kid, hence, I graduated early, but I didn't have the college education, right? So a lack of education, I had the youth, the age against me. And you know, I always say that, and I still get attacked for that, like just the other day, I had a sales meeting with a potential client, and they criticized me for looking too young, not once, but, like, a half a dozen times in an hour-long presentation, to the point where I was just like, Okay, what like if I was, you know, a male at my age, in the prime of their I'd be in the prime of my life, right? But because I'm, because I'm a female at my age, you know, I'm 46 I and I, and I happen to have taken care of my skin and, you know, and be in good shape. I'm suddenly criticized for not having enough experience because I look too young, like it just doesn't make any sense. But so it seems like I like, I'm still constantly fighting that fight. But, you know, now I realize it's just more biased than anything, and I don't feel, you know, that. That's much more maturity but when you're in your 20s that's just massive, you know. I mean it when people come up to you and say, Oh, you remind me of my daughter, or, you know, you remind me of myself at your age, like that's not a compliment to that person, to that young professional. You're putting them in a position of uncomfortableness. You're you think you're building commonality with them, but the reality of it is, is you're actually alienating them because it doesn't. They don't have that sense of commonality with you. They don't have that experience.
That's right. You're absolutely right. And there's a and can be an element of condescension to it as well. You're almost delegitimizing somebody by saying, Oh yeah, I remember way back when I was your age.
Leslie Alvarez
Or you're too young to remember this band. Well, you don't know what I know and what I don't know. I was raised by my grandmother. You know what I mean? I'm a Katherine Hepburn, Audrey Hepburn, old-school classic. You know person. You don't know what I know and what I don't know. You know, don't, don't, don't project that on people just because they look younger, because their age is young, you just don't know.
Kim Meninger
No, you're absolutely right. That happened to me in my early 40s. I was having a conversation about potentially doing some work for an organization. They're like, We're sorry, but we just can't put you in front of our clients. You look too young. They won't take you seriously. I'm like, I'm in my 40s.
Leslie Alvarez
How much older do I have to get to be able? I mean, I keep I said this after that client meeting. Are you telling me that I would be considered more credible if I looked if I was 30 pounds overweight and I looked haggard and my gray hair was showing? I mean, I don't know what else to say, but, I mean, a man at my age would never be told that he was looked too young. If he was in good shape and he was 46 years old and still attracted. He's in the prime of his life.
Kim Meninger
You're right? And for women, I feel like we're too young, until all of a sudden we're too old, right?
Leslie Alvarez
There's a new there's a switch, then it just gets flipped. Yeah, it's insane. [Yeah.] But I mean, even as a mom, I mean, I put my kids in school, and again, you know, my I had my daughter at 20. I had my son at 23 you know, I was surrounded by moms, because I lived out in the suburbs. I was surrounded by moms that had their kids in their 30s. So, you know, I was always that younger mom in the group, and that was always even a little more awkward, right? Because then they would kind of look at you like or you felt like they looked at you. Maybe they weren't, but you felt like they were looking at you kind of like, Hmm, you know, like she, you know, she's young, she's inexperienced, she doesn't know what she's doing, you know, or how I, you do my, how I raise my kid, is not their way of raising their kid. And, you know, they can use that as criticism. So it's, it's, it was, it permeated my whole life. It really did.
Kim Meninger
Or they think you're the nanny.
Leslie Alvarez
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Or they think I'm trying to hit on their phone, their, their husband or something. I mean, you know, just, you know what I mean? I mean, it's just, it's just, it can go all over the place and get really uncomfortable very quickly.
Kim Meninger
Well, and I think the thing that you're pointing out, and I want to dig a little bit more deeply into, too, is that I'm sure there were a lot of people around you who didn't say things like that, but the, the people who do stay in your head, right? And it becomes part of your own narrative and the way you see yourself in relationships other people. So even if you are in the room and no one's saying it, there's still this fear that people are thinking it right? So, so can you say more about how it affected you, just more pervasively, as you were going through your career, like, Were there things that you didn't share? For example, because you were worried about what people were gonna think, like, how, what were some of the did or didn't do?
Leslie Alvarez
I dated a guy and he that was, that was 20 years older than me, and he didn't know what my age was for two years. I mean, I stopped telling people how old I was because I didn't want to hear the story. I didn't actually start owning my age until I turned 40. And that was when I was like, at 39 I was like, road to 40 hashtag, you know, hashtag road to 40. Hashtag road to 40. And at that point, I was like, I can own this age because this is a fair age, right? This is a respectable age. And the other ages, I felt like I was just too young, and I didn't want to share with anybody. I just kept it all to myself. And, you know, it was, yeah, I mean, it was tough. And I think that the, that we, you know, it did. It made every part of my of every relationship, business and personal, a little more uncomfortable because I felt slightly out of place. And yeah, it definitely took over my narrative, my inner narrative.
Kim Meninger
So you had mentioned feeling like you needed to be more assertive. I mean, it's hard to do this stuff on your own. Did you have someone around you that you saw as a mentor? Like, how did you get to a better place with…
Leslie Alvarez
So you know, yeah, you're right. And that was, that was a big thing, right? It, it, it. I feel like I did have to become a little more a. Assertive, a little more vocal. I mean, I'm already, I was already a vocal person, but I did feel like I needed to stand my ground more, which probably also, you know, created, you know, issues with certain relationships and, and even in, you know, my career because I was more, you know, I was just, I was just more vocal and, and had enough, and felt like I needed to be a little louder and a little more assertive in what I said, a little more aggressive in how I handled things, to be able to get my point across, otherwise I wasn't going to be taken seriously. And so that probably created, you know, some, some workflow problems for me and my relationships, business-wise. You know, when I was younger, that, that could have been avoided had I not had to feel that way. Um, but it was, it was, it was tough and, and it sometimes, like I said, it still happens now.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and it's interesting because that whole idea of you're needing to be more sort of, so you were almost overcompensating by being more aggressive. And we know that the, the double bind, right? That you, you can be, uh, likable or competent, but it's really hard to be both, and so you're often seen as too soft or too tough, right?
Leslie Alvarez
Correct. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think that is that that has definitely, um, caused me issues in my career, and I have spent the last, I say, six, since I turned 40, trying to be more approachable. That's what I call it. My hair stylist, we, when I get my hair done, we make a joke. She's like, are we trying to be approachable this month? And I'm like, Yes, we're trying to be approachable, so we're going to add some new layers. We're going to add some softening highlights. You know, my hair was pitch black. I have a, pitch black dark hair. I have dark brown eyes, dark black hair. And that can be very severe, especially when you're more aggressive. And so I started trying to lighten my hair and, and I wear white now instead of red and black and things like that, you know, so trying to be a little softer and warm and, and, and…
Kim Meninger
it just, I mean, I guess my the question that comes up for me, as you're saying that too, is, how do you balance, and I, I'm not a big fan of this word, but like, how do you balance authenticity with strategy, right? So you're talking about being, you know, you're being strategic about how you're showing up but I wonder how much of that feels performative to you versus you're just bringing out a different side of yourself, and what effect that has on your confidence?
Leslie Alvarez
Well, actually, if I feel I actually feel a lot better. I feel like you said, it brings out a different side to me that people haven't really seen, right, because they, they don't give me the chance to be soft, because I'm so used to they're, they're so used to me being aggressive, you know, and in the business world and such. So I enjoy it and, and, but, you know, again, I do think that it's, it's a strategy of you have to think, I think, as a woman, you have to think strategic about everything constantly. I think in the business world, especially, you know, I look the night before at my calendar for the next day and plan out my outfit based on that meeting. You know, who am I meeting with? Is it a more casual meeting? Is this a more formal meeting? Do I need to go, you know, if I'm meeting with a group of, you know, females, and then I'm probably going to be able to be a little more casual, a little more myself. If I'm going to be meeting with a with a group of, of, you know, high, high, high network males, I probably need to go in there with a little more of a power suit, right? So I have to be very strategic. And I've always done that because I just felt that was really important.
Kim Meninger
Do you feel like you're still, I mean, nobody ever feels like they've reached the pinnacle of confidence, right? But do you feel like it's still a struggle for you, or do you feel like you're, you're more getting into your, your own at this point, right?
Leslie Alvarez
I'm more into my own at this point. Um, you know, I will say, in the last two years I've had a ton of personal growth. Well, probably more like five years I had, I've had a ton of personal growth that I have really begun to be more of my own authentic self. That's really brought out the ability to share my story. You know, as a single mom, most of my kids life and my son had an, hadn't had an accident right before he turned 18, and it was a very, very severe issue. I almost lost him, and that really helped to open my eyes up about, you know, needing to be more in the moment and, and really focus on making sure that I'm being who I really want to be, right? And I felt like there was a reason why I had struggled all these years and dealt with what I had dealt with, especially imposter syndrome, and that was and there was a reason why I'm vocal. There's a reason why I'm able, why I like to speak. I enjoy speaking. I enjoy talking to others, and I don't mind sharing my story. Some people don't like to share their story because they were raised to keep, you know the keep it to themselves, and they're just very private, and that's okay, but they like to hear someone else's story so that they know they're not alone. And so I feel like there's a reason I went through all of this, is because, and the reason is that it's because I can then share my story, and I'm able to speak to others and help others to know that they're not alone, and that that it's going to be okay, that they can get through it, and also to help others. You know, now at my older age, at my advanced age of 46 you know, I too find myself sometimes in a room. I was at a conference last week, and, and the people, the, the, the guys that were at the conference, I mean, they looked so young, and people were commenting on how young they looked. And I, I agree they looked young, but I said to everybody, you know, I'm not going to say anything. And I, you know, because, can you imagine how they don't want to hear that? They've heard it, you know, like their whole, their whole career, and that's just not, you know, going to help them at all. They obviously are qualified. They obviously know what they're talking about. And we should just, you know, listen to them. It was a software conference, and so I, told that story multiple times to people, every time I heard somebody talking about how young somebody looked because I felt like it was my place to remind them that that's not an okay thing. Yes, they look young, okay, but that doesn't mean they're not qualified. There's a reason why they have the job, there's a reason why they're here, and we're just going to leave it at that. Let's not make everybody feel uncomfortable.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and it's interesting how well youth in particular, not necessarily. We wouldn't necessarily do that with, Wow, they look so old, right? We would only do it in the reverse of they look so young. But that's like one physical characteristic that we feel really comfortable being really open and judgy, [yeah] whereas, yeah, other situations, we would keep our mouth shut. So it's interesting that we have permission to, to make those kind of comments.
Leslie Alvarez
And it’s literally one of the only things that a person can't control, right? Can't control your age, right? I mean, you can get, you know, facial corrections and Botox and things like that, to make yourself look younger, to make yourself look older, to change your nose, to do all these things. But the one thing you can't control is your age, right? And so it's something that somebody is completely complete. You can go to college, you can get your education, you can do all that. You can fix those things. The one thing that you can't control, you're going to criticize the worst and make somebody feel less than capable or competent. It's just, you know, it's not fair.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, well, it's interesting because you mentioned having the or wanting, I guess, to tell your story and having the opportunity to share with others. And I feel like your willingness to step in in those moments and just say, hey, time out, right? Like, maybe this isn't the best way to approach people or think about people goes a long way, because sometimes it just takes somebody interrupting that to make people realize, like, oh, maybe I shouldn't respond this way. Right? So it sounds like in your own world, we obviously can't control everything, but in your own world, you're using your own experience to help other people think differently about how they're interacting.
Leslie Alvarez
Absolutely, that's definitely my goal, you know. And again, I went back to school as an adult. I did get my college degree. Now I have the student loan debt to go along with it, you know. So I'm part of America, yay. But nobody can say I don't have the degree, right? It's like, like, it's on the wall, you know. But so I eliminated that, you know, and yet I still, just a few weeks ago, like I said earlier, get criticized for looking too young. I mean, you know, I mean it's, now, it's just one of those things that you just kind of like, okay, but again, I mean it's, it's, everybody has something. [Yeah.] Everybody has something. And, and, and, you know what I, what I, what I think is, is, you know, imposter syndrome. We like to give labels to things, and we like to call things syndrome. But the reality of it is, is this just human nature? We're going to all second guess ourselves, and we second guess ourselves every single day, and it's important that we keep in mind what wins we have had, so that we remind ourselves when we start going down that rabbit hole of second-guessing ourselves, of why that you know is not you know appropriate, and why we know we're successful and, and dig ourselves, keep ourselves out of that rut. Because you can go down that rut, and you can, you know, end up, you know, really upset over whatever your cause of your, your feelings is, and you know, it's all in your head. It's all in your head. You're it's a, it's an issue of your own making, right? Whether there's outside influences that are creating this as. Well and putting it into your head. But, ultimately, you control what lives in your head, and so you have to put the positive reminders in your head so that when those negative comments or reminders come pop up, you're able to push them aside and focus on the positive and dig yourself out of it.
Kim Meninger
Well, and you're reminding me of the Eleanor Roosevelt quote, like, “No one can make you fear feel inferior without your consent,” right? And so this idea that there are going to be people out there who will judge you for any number of things, but we also have the opportunity to reject that right, and to adopt a different narrative about who we are, and so [right] do you have specific practices that you use or things that help you to stay connected to that when your mind goes to that place of, oh no, right, I don't feel legitimate or…
Leslie Alvarez
Well, the first thing I do is I have to vent, right? I have to get it out of my chest. I can't I have to say it. I have to tell somebody my story, whether it's my sister, my son, my daughter. I have to tell somebody what just happened so that I get it off my chest and it then it's out there, right? Because I'm frustrated by it, and it's irritating me that this person said this or did that, or, or I didn't win the account, because this person felt whatever and, and so I get it off my chest, I say it, I tell it, I vent. And then, for the most part, I've learned to try to let it go after that. Um, you know, it might live there for, for a little bit longer, but at that point it's like, once I've gotten it off my chest, I say, Okay, now I can move on. Now I can, now I can focus on the next because there's another one that's coming around the corner for me. And, you know, I try to keep that positive and keep, like I said, a list of successes that I can run over in my head when I need to, to talk myself out of it and talk myself off the ledge, so to speak. But I believe that those, that list of successes is really important to be able to remind yourself that you know you, you are good and you are successful.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I often recommend that too, to keep a list of your accomplishments because I think that even just keeping track of them trains your brain to think about yourself differently. Because we do tend to notice all the negatives and not notice the positives. But if you're if you're focused and you're putting down all of the positive things that you're doing, it just helps you to notice things that would otherwise slip right by you.
Leslie Alvarez
Right. Right. Yeah, and sometimes the winds are little, and that's okay, you know? But when you get Not I, I'm a firm believer that when you get knocked off at the knees and you're on the floor, you, you need to honor the feeling that you're feeling, whatever that feeling is. And that's when I tell my story, repeat it to somebody, you know, vent. Get it off my chest. You know that I'm frustrated by this. I can't believe this happened. You know, I've overcome so much, and yet I'm still, you know, getting this kind of comments. But then you plot your comeback, and you start thinking, you know, while you're on the floor still, you've got to be thinking about your next your next steps. And I believe in having a backup plan for my backup plan, and just constantly, you know, always thinking two steps ahead. That's kind of the property manager in me too, right? You know, because, you know, I've got to be constantly, you know, looking for a solution, and if something fails, then what's the next backup for that. So.
Kim Meninger
Yeah and I wonder now that you've gotten to this place where you're stronger, you're more confident, do you have any additional advice for people who are younger now, who are going through some of this that might help them shortcut some of what you've gone through?
Leslie Alvarez
Yeah, again, like we, we already talked about it, keeping that list of successes is definitely important, and the list is going to grow. You know, find yourself a mentor, somebody who can understand what you're dealing with, you know, somebody like me that's been through it, that you can use to talk through it and bounce the ideas of how you want to handle a certain situation. So find somebody that's gone through a similar situation, whether it's lack, you know, coming from a, from a low economic background, having a lack of college education, whether it's an issue of age, you know, whatever your issue that makes you feel less than equal to everyone else, find someone that has that same that that is advanced further along than you are, so that you can go back to them and pick their brain, vent to them in a safe space where you know that it's not going to be, you know, used against you later on, you know. And you know, that's the worst thing is when you share with somebody, and then they come back and, you know, hurt you with it. So find somebody that's safe, that you can talk to.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that’s a really good point too. Is somebody that you can trust, and everything is in how you look at it, right? Because all of the people sort of looking at you and thinking how young you are could also be thinking like, wow, look at how far she's come in such a short time, right? Like, you could say that's amazing that she. Has, you know, gotten to this point at such a young age, and so, you know, I think a lot of it is in the frame we adopt, and it's hard because we're, Oh, bless you. We're always going to be as humans, right? We're always going to care about what other people think. It's part of our design. But I also think important to recognize that when people say things like that to us, they're really revealing more about themselves than anything else. It really doesn't have anything to do with us. And so maybe that's their insecurity about them feeling old in relationship to…
Leslie Alvarez
Yeah, you know, you know, when I was a little girl, you know, I, I had a lot of mean girls around me, and my grandmother used to always tell me they're just jealous of you, right? And I don't know about you, but you probably heard that from your mother or grandmother as well, and you always think that your mother, your grandmother's crazy, right? Like, you know, hell yeah, okay, yeah, everybody's so jealous of me. Like, what have I got that they don't have? Like, you know what I mean? Like, you just think of like, yeah, okay, whatever. But the reality of it is, as you get older, you realize there is a lot of jealous people out there, and there are people that are very insecure, and you know your sense of confidence or your success can threaten them, and it does create a, you know, a jealousy issue. So you know, it is a true fact. And you do have to sometimes just, you know, recognize that, you know it's not about you, it's about them, it's what they're dealing with.
Kim Meninger
You're absolutely right. And I think, you know, I always say true confidence is quiet, like, if you really believe in yourself, you don't need to put other people down in order to feel better about yourself. And so it doesn't make it any less unpleasant or painful when you're dealing with people like that, but I do think it's important to process it as that's about them, like we're talking about right? And really try as hard as you can not to let it infiltrate your own story, right?
Leslie Alvarez
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. I mean, this has been so fantastic. Leslie, we've never, I've never done a conversation like this around age. So I know there are a lot of young people listening, and I know how many of them are feeling this way because I was one of them myself too, as always looking younger and always being the youngest person in the room when I was starting out my career. So this is just so helpful to think about how to navigate this. And any final thoughts?
Leslie Alvarez
You know, my daughter's actually going through this now. So she's 26 and she is, you know, got her MBA and, and all of that, and she's, and she's going through it. So, yeah, I think that it's a very it's timely all the time, right? Because there's always somebody that's going through this issue. But, you know, I, I wrote, I wrote my book When Life Gives You Lemons Make Tamales. And that's where this is based on, it's based on my life. It's based on being a single mom, really just trying to make things happen for the kids all the years. It's on Amazon, if anybody is interested in that. And I have a second book that's going to be coming out in 2025, it's going to be called Hot Mess Express, and that's all about overcoming life's curve balls and grief when, when you've suffered loss. So it's going to take a little, little different of a turn in the conversation. But again, like I said, I think we're, we're all constantly evolving. We're all learning. And, you know, gosh, you know, when you're when you're in your 20s and people in their 40s are saying, you have no idea, just I tell you, until you get to, you know, the things that we all deal with each day. It definitely does grow you, you know, give you growth and expansion and teach you so much as we, as we experience life and go through life. So I think that we have a lot to share, and we need to share and help others as much as we can, and be open to hearing from others, because it can help us in ways that we just don't even realize.
Kim Meninger
I think that's a really important point, too, and wisdom does not just come with age, right? We each have vastly different experiences that influence who we are and how we show up in the world. There's so much we can learn from each other, and to just make assumptions based on superficial information, like someone's age or how they look, is we're missing a lot, and so I think [absolutely,] I really appreciate your bringing this out into the world and being an inspiration to others who have struggled in this way. And so you mentioned your books. Is there anywhere else you would want to point people to, to learn more about you or to connect with you?
Leslie Alvarez
Well, I do have a website. Leslie alvarez.com so L-E-S-L-I-E Alvarez A-L-V-A-R-E-Z dot com. Yes, and you can reach out to me there schedule a call. I am available for speaking and presentations and all of that's available on the website.
Kim Meninger
Excellent. Well, thank you so much. Leslie, I really appreciate it.
Leslie Alvarez
Thank you, Kim. I really enjoyed it.