In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about listening to ourselves so that can we choose our responses, not just react to our surroundings. Many of us are too busy to listen to our bodies, or we try to deny the signals they’re sending us. But we do so at our own peril. My guest this week, Vicki Bradley, is an executive coach and former retail executive who shares how her own experience with ignoring her body’s signals resulted in stress and sickness that forced her to make a career change. Here we talk about the need to listen to our hearts and bodies so that we can make more empowered choices. We also talk about the power of support networks and asking for help.
About My Guest
Vicki Bradley is the founder and CEO of Women in Leadership Empowered, executive coach, PCC, certified in EQ, CIQ. Primarily work with women in senior leadership roles and emerging leaders. Focus in on being a conscious leader, with a bold voice, and the confidence to achieve your dreams. Spent 25+ years as a Sr Exec and a number of iconic retailers. Currently working on a Transdiciplinary PhD.
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Connect with Vicki:
Website: www.wilempowered.com
WIL Talk podcast: https://www.wilempowered.com/our-podcast/
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Vicki, I am so excited to talk to you today. And I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Vicki Bradley
Happy to, so Kim, thanks for having me. Well, I'm Vicki Bradley, I do a lot of different things. Currently, I am an executive coach. But I also run a company called Women and Leadership Empowered, where it's more of a community that we have. And we invite individuals who are emerging leaders that, you know, we work with them on, you know, really building their leadership skills, more soft skills. But we also focus on, you know, peer-to-peer mentoring, helping them build their networks. But that's what I do currently. But I'll give you a little background on myself, Kim. So I spent about 30 years as an executive in the retail industry and ran a number of iconic brands, one of those being the Bombay Furniture Company. Yeah, which, which I absolutely loved. I spent 10 years with them. In Canada. And in the last year I was there I was in the US. But I loved my retail career. But the reason I bring that up is because I got very sick during my time there. And unfortunately, I think the stress and you know, as women in particular, I think we all relate to that, tried to raise families, you know, having our partner relationships, taking care of our parents in some cases, and then having full-time careers. And so, unfortunately, my body physically said no more Vicki, and it shut down on me. And so I had to I had to really reevaluate what I was doing, and why I was doing it. And even though I loved and I pushed and pushed to, you know, to continue to be in that world, my body just wouldn't allow me to do that. And so, unfortunately, I had to take some time off. And to be honest, it was the best thing that ever happened to me, Kim. And through that experience, it allowed me to really look at what was working in my life and what wasn't working in my life. And I spent quite a bit of time just evaluating what did I, what did I like, what did I not like? Why was this happening? Because I had spent many years avoiding that question of why it was happening. And so when my body finally shut down, I had to really, you know, I had to take a step back and figure out why. And a lot of that I think happened because I wasn't in alignment with where I was supposed to be at that time in my life. And anyway, I ended up going back to school and getting my certification and coaching. And the place that I did my coach training, they actually do a double certification. And one of the certifications they do is a practitioners energy leadership. And that was life-changing for me. And so I really started practicing conscious leadership and understanding how did I want to respond to life versus react to life. And so this was a really pivotal moment in how to shift where I was in the world, and how I was engaging in the world. And as a type A personality executive, that was really hard to, you know, slow down long enough to really look at what was happening and why it was happening. So that just kind of gives you sort of a broad stroke of where I've been and where I'm at today.
Kim Meninger
I so appreciate your sharing that and I feel like more than ever, and I'm sure it's a combination of factors from you know, just, there's more opportunity to speak about it, there's been a lot more stress with the pandemic and all that that broad. More so than ever. I'm hearing stories of people who have reached their breaking point physically or mentally and has led them in a new direction. And I wonder if you can share, in hindsight, because you talked about, you know, sort of avoiding the question. If you had it to do over again. What do you have? I'm trying to use choosing my words carefully. Do you think you would have been able to have the success that you had, and do it in a way that did not burn yourself out? Or do you think it's something about the culture that we live in the expectations of these jobs? herbs that put this kind of pressure on people like I guess I'm just wondering how, how you might have? Could you have stayed have you addressed this earlier?
Vicki Bradley
Great questions. So if I knew then what I know now? Yes, yes, because it is a mindset shift. As much as it is a physical shift, it really is about being in tune to the messages that we get, right? And what I mean by that is, we get messages physically, we get them emotionally, we get them mentally. And I think often so I'm going to get a tie in when you said the society we live in is that is there a way to do that? It's hard, no question. It's not an easy thing to do. But when we start to recognize those signals, because our bodies are intuitively very smart, we ignore, or we avoid, which is what I was doing, it took me getting hit over the head three times before I actually paid attention to what those signals were. So if I knew then what I know now, absolutely, and I would have been a much better leader, even though I will say I was a great leader and did a lot of incredible work, and you know, really helped a lot of people succeed in their careers. But this was meant to happen, I think, to help me see even a bigger picture and holistically tapping into who I am as a full person, not just as a career person, if that makes sense.
Kim Meninger
Oh, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And I think about this from the perspective of, there's so many people and you know, women in particular, although men struggle with this as well. Where we reach a certain point, you're, you know, at a certain level of leadership. And you look around, and I mean, this is based on narratives that I hear all day long, so feel free to correct me if this is not your story, but there's this pressure, you look up, you look sideways, and you think, well, everyone else is handling it just fine. And who am I to say that I need a break or that I have too much on my plate when everyone around me is working just as hard as I am like, I have no right to set a boundary right now I have no right to take a vacation, I have no right to take care of myself when my whole team is overwhelmed. This just our way of doing business. And so I just need to suck it up, right and just do it. And I think that that's the avoidance piece, right? Because they're almost feel selfish, or like a luxury you can't afford once you, once you get to a certain point. And then the demands in the higher you get, the more demanding the job is. And it just feels like well, this is what I signed up for. And if I can't handle it, that's a personal weakness as opposed to a broken system that maybe were I to make some adjustments would actually have beneficial effects on other people around me. So I wonder if you could share any insights you have on how much more complex it is than just your own experience? Because you're not operating in a vacuum you are at the mercy in many ways of the dynamics at play in your environment.
Vicki Bradley
Wow. My head went like a million directions there. Yes, I think that narrative is very common. Absolutely. I hear it constantly from the women that I work with, and men too, but more for from women in particular, because we've been told that we shouldn't be doing these roles anyway. And we fight for these roles. And then when we get there, it's like, oh, well, we can't let go of that, because we fought so hard to get here. And there's so few of us in these roles. So that's one sort of narrative that happens. But on the flip side of that, again, you know, I'll go back to your comment earlier about if I knew then what I know now. It takes a lot of courage to I'm going to use the word go against the system, but to behave differently, and it takes many of us to, to go against that and say you know what? No, this is best for my well-being. But it's also teaching that and modeling to the people that you are leading or serving. That it's okay that you are a human being and that we all have a place or a time when enough is enough. And if we don't put those boundaries in place, and we get used up, burnt out whatever terminology you want to use, then what good are we to anybody? And so, you know, a big part of it is ego at least in my case, it was ego because it was like, No, I'm the president of the Bombay Furniture Company, and no chance am I going to stop? And I remember an example, I was traveling in the US with one of my regional managers, and I couldn't even stand up straight. And it's like, nine o'clock at night. And she's like, don't you think you should just go to your hotel? And I was like, no, no, it's okay, let's keep going. Right? Let's go to dinner. Like, this is our time to review what's happening in your market and, you know, talk about your strategy, I was crazy doing that, like the best gift I could have given her and myself, was to have called a night, gone to my hotel room rested up and then ready for the next day. And I pushed myself and that was ego 100%. That was ego. And here's the thing, sometimes we, we get caught up in societal norms and pressures that oh, my gosh, we can't do that. But to your point, we look weak, you actually are showing your strength, when you're able to do that because what you're doing is you're setting that example that it is okay to be human. That's, that's what we're here for. And you also are providing space for people to show up in their best possible way, when they can be fully themselves and not burnt out and not resentful, or not, you know, in pain or whatever the scenario might be because we all experience different things. Right? And so I think it's, it's so important, especially given today's world and how fast we're moving, we have to be listening to what our needs are. And instead of thinking of it as a risk, like in my case, I was afraid I would let people down. I was worried that oh, gosh, if I'm not there for them, what will they do? Like I'm responsible for 1000s of employees, which was ridiculous. I hired great people, I hire competent people that were really smart, and they would have been perfectly fine. And they were perfectly fine. Because when my body shut down, I didn't have a choice at that point, I had to leave. So you know, sometimes we just have to get out of our own heads and spend a little more time in our hearts and recognize what is best, not just for us, but for the greater good. I would say.
Kim Meninger
I love that you're connecting it to the greater good because I think that when you use words like courage and strength, it's so important to recognize that it is an act of leadership, not an undermining of leadership to behave in the ways that you're describing. Because we do we try to deny our humanity by thinking that we are these invincible machines that can just keep going and going and going when we, we all know, that's not how we operate. We need sleep, right? When people talk about how they, they live on two hours of sleep are not heroes. We need sleep, we need to take care of ourselves, we need to have multifaceted lives, but it's almost this competition to see who's sacrificing more than others are. And it takes the brave soul to stand up and say, Actually, we are of greater service to ourselves to those around us to our businesses, if we acknowledge our humanity and take care of ourselves, because we're gonna reach the breaking point that you're describing, or we're just in general, not going to be as effective as we think we are. And, and I think that there's just this, this profile of strength that we have perpetuated, that is not true.
Vicki Bradley
No, it, you're absolutely right, Kim. And if you think about, like, you know, what's, what is realistically the number one killer from a health perspective, okay? Like it's been heart disease, cancer, but stress is right up there at the top. Right? And that's why I mentioned conscious leadership earlier because when you're conscious and leadership doesn't mean you have to be leading an organization like in my case, I was, I was leading a company leading your own life like, when we are reacting to stress, you are not making good decisions. When you are acting, you are going through motions, you are not impacting in a positive, effective way. When you can slow it down and be responsive and very conscious of how you are addressing situations how you are interacting, that helps you reduce that stress, because you're able to be very much in tune with, what are the best possible ways to respond in given this situation at this moment, doesn't mean you won't change it down the road. But given the information you have, you're making decisions that have a best possible outcome for all involved. And when you react, you can't do that. You're not thinking clearly you're it's just it's a, you know, it's an opposite effect, even though we think, you know, yeah, we can handle this to your point, we're superhuman, which is just not a reality.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And I love the way you're talking about response versus reaction to and just the intentionality. Yeah, the space for intentionality, which we don't often leave for ourselves. And I'm thinking about what you were talking about, of how your body shut down, and you suddenly found yourself with time, or maybe just, you know, unfortunately, it often takes a crisis in order to create this moment of self-reflection for me, it was going on maternity leave, suddenly had all this, you know, obviously different my time was spent differently with a newborn, but just this moment of removing yourself from the situation where you think, Hmm, what was that your questions were very similar to mine, like, what do I enjoy? When do I feel like I'm at my best things that I had never taken the time to think about in the moment? And I wonder if you have thoughts on how can we do this more proactively. How can we have this kind of create this space for self-reflection and self-awareness? Before the crisis hits? Especially when we feel like we're moving in so many different directions. There's so many people pulling at us?
Vicki Bradley
Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I often, when I was in the midst of all this, I often actually reflected on that, like, what could I have done to be more aware in the moment, versus having to literally get hit over the head three times before I woke up and went, Oh, I need to make some serious changes in my life? Great question. And I think part of it is part of it is building your network. Right? And it's having like-minded individuals, call it your, you know, mini advisory board or whatever that can, that can actually be truthful and objective with regards to how you're showing up. Because we don't sometimes we only know what we know, right? And we can't always see how we're being impacted. So that example I gave when I regional managers like, like, don't you want to just go back to your hotel room? I couldn't, I was blind, right? Because all I could think about was No, I only get to come to this market every, you know, six months. So I want to spend time or every three months, whatever. So I think we need that. That group around us of like-minded individuals that can say, hey, Vicki, you know what, I can see that maybe you're an overload, or maybe physically, I can see some changes in you. Of course, I'm going to promote coaching, which you and I both do. But there's so much value in coaching. And people often, I think they have a they have an impression of coaching is that, oh, you hire a coach when you're in trouble, right? That's not true. You hire a coach to help you be at your optimal. You hire a coach to help you navigate things proactively so that you don't get into the situation, like I was in, right? And so it's really helping you put a mirror up and say, what's really going What do you love? What do you not love? Right? What language are you using? I was just talking with a client before our call today, Kim, and one of the things I was talking to her about I said, pay attention to the language you're using, right? And I reflected back to those days when I was sick. And I was using words like there's, you know, there's such a toxicity happening. And it wasn't within the realms of what I was, let's say in control of it was the realms outside of my control. But the language I used was very telling as to internally what was going on with me. Right? And so I think we sometimes we have to pay attention to that and we don't hear our words. And so, having a coach having someone who can be completely unbiased helps us identify like, you know, what parts of my life am I not at my optimal like I personally believe we are put on this planet, this earth to be at our full essence. Right? So how do we do that? And that doesn't mean just our career, that means in all aspects of our lives. And that doesn't mean saying yes to everything. And so, you know, it is being able to discern what is best for us. And so those are, those are just a couple of ways that I think you can get that support that you, that you need.
Kim Meninger
Well, and one of the things I love about what you're saying is the theme that runs through it is you don't have to do it alone. [No, exactly.] And I think that we hurt, you know, in that same quest to be superhuman, we often feel like this is an individual sport, right? Like, I just need to keep doing this myself and proving to myself, and especially if we have other, other layers of perfectionism, and you know, just wanting to always feel like we need to prove ourselves, you talked about, there aren't as many women in leadership and that that feeling of, like, oh, I need, I need to make sure this works, or else I'm gonna be letting other women down to not just actually. And so that is a lot to carry around. And to be able to access the support of others is so powerful. Sometimes I think we, you know, we feel like it's an expression of weakness when in actuality, it's strength.
Vicki Bradley
You're joining hands, and it's male and female, right? Like, it's building those, having those allies in your back corner, right? Like, they're the ones cheering you on, but also calling it out and saying, Hey, Vicki, you know, what, I've been noticing your stress levels high or, and we are made to have all this stress in our lives. Like that's, that is not the reality of how we should be showing up. So you know, what I would, you know, just from a, from an audience perspective, a question, you know, I would say ask yourself is, what are your stress levels? Are you in stress more than you're not in stress? But also, it's asking some of those fundamental questions. Am I doing what I should be doing? I remember a young woman, I was speaking to this a couple of years ago. And she was transitioning, we had just met, and she was transitioning her job. And so I said to her, I said, Well, what do you what would you like to do? And the phone went dead quiet. And I thought, did we get disconnected? And in a couple of seconds, she said, No one's ever asked me that. And I went, really? And she goes, and sadly, I've never thought about it. And I said, Wow, that's really interesting. And I said, Well, if you had a blank canvas, and you could create what you want, what would that be? And what she shared with me, she shared what that would look like, but also what she shared with me. She said, you know, Vicki, she said, I've never thought about it, because jobs have always came, she goes, I've been recruited and, and you know, it might be somebody I know or somebody, you know, acknowledges Me and validates all of the skills that I have. And she said, and so then I would just she goes on, I've never really had to look for a job until now. And it was very interesting. It was such a pivotal moment for her because she said it, this has really awakened me to am I just going through the motions of life and just jumping from one thing to the next, versus being very intentional about what I want. And when she had described to me on the blank canvas, what she had been doing was completely opposite of what her ideal would be. And so I think that's for the audience purposes. Like that's something to ask yourself, right? Are you just falling into things? And it's just happening sort of on autopilot? Or are you being very purposeful and intentional about how you're leading your life?
Kim Meninger
That's such a great point. And I think that's the reality for so many talented people is you do get recognized and people tap you on the shoulder and they bring you along and there is this flattery that comes with that really we want to feel wanted we want to feel seen. It's really nice to have people say I want you on my team. But is that the right move for you? And that's not something we often take our take time to ask ourselves in that moment, it's more about Oh, sure. How can I, how can I go and continue this partnership with this person? And one of the things that I say in it, you know, I don't mean this disrespectfully. I know that these people who tap you on the shoulder, have good intentions, but they're doing it because they benefit from it because their lives easier. Right? And so the question is, is this what I want to not just what they want for me that's a hard thing to come to it's, it takes yet another moment of courage to be able to say to somebody who you really respect and who you appreciate that, you know what I grateful for the offer, but this isn't the right move for me.
Vicki Bradley
Yeah. Yeah. And being okay with that, because, again, that builds your confidence, right? Like, certain things you want to say yes to. And often it's saying no to things, and it's being true to who we are as beings. And really, are we engaging in life? Are we being part of life versus are we just doing all the time, and that is such a pivotal shift in how we engage in the world. And, you know, if you're surrounded by people who are just doing all the time, start to look for some of those people who are being at their best and at their optimal. I think that's such a, you know, such an important call out again, about the community, like not doing it alone cameras, as you pointed out, like having that community around you of how people are actually engaging. And the reality is, we all have that we all do that comparison game. Like we're flooded with social media, we're flooded with, you know, the news, all these things that say these things, but the reality is guaranteed, probably 98% of the world is feeling the same way we're feeling. And everybody is looking at each other. So just be true to who you are, and what you want to leave as a legacy in this world. [Yes.] Yeah.
Kim Meninger
I think that's a great point. And one of the things I think a lot about, and we can have a whole separate conversation about this is that we are doing a lot you and I personally, and you know, society at large is doing a lot to empower women. And there is good reason for that. At the same time. I'm really worried about men right now because I don't think they've been given the same freedom to be able to say, I don't want this career path or this type of pressure. And there aren't abundant resources available for them to talk to and talk through their challenges with and I think it perpetuates the systems that we're talking about, because even more difficult for them to ask for help or to say, you know, I need to take time for myself right now. And so when we think about it more holistically, and I think one of the themes of our conversation today is humanity, not just based on gender, is for us to collectively reframe the narrative and rewrite the rules on what leadership looks like, because it's to all of our benefit.
Vicky Bradley
100 percent 100%, Kim. Yes. And you know, one thing I will say is like, so when I do live events, it's normally, you know, 95% women. And back in May, in the late spring or early summer, I hosted an event and it was 50-50. Know, to your point, I think there is this I'll call it a little bit of an awakening, also, where men are looking for similar support, but they're also looking to be better allies. And we need that. We, if you still if we swing the pendulum too far, you know, women, women, women, which, you know, we've, we've kind of been doing in the last couple of years, we have to find, how do we harmonize? So it isn't about balancing, it's how do we harmonize so that humanity as a collective to your point, is, you know, really being an engaging in the world the way that we need to and some of the systems and some of the structures that we've had in history, like, we can go back quite a ways. You know, those systems don't work anymore. And so we do have to start to break some of those systems down and start to shift that narrative. It's not a fast process, for sure. But it takes each one of us having that courage, saying no, you know, being okay to recognize that we got to do things differently.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I think if, if I were to sort of sum up the key themes of what we've been talking about, it's, it's individual courage, but with the support of others, right? So it takes a certain amount of courage that we get from within but we don't have to do it individually and to be able to, because you had even referenced this going back to the beginning of just the strength and no members write that, you know, if you're going up against a system, it's a lot easier to do that when you've got a lot of people supporting you in the process. And so to just find the courage and then find the people who can help you to get there.
Vicky Bradley
100% 100%, we get caught in these paradigms, right? And when you start to recognize what you need, as an example, whether it be somebody who's done it already, somebody who's ahead of you, like, once you start to put that out, those people show up. So don't ignore it. If you're making new connections, there's a reason, right? There is a reason that person has come into your life. And so pay attention, right? Again, it's asking those questions that we were talking about earlier, pay attention to what message are you meant to learn from that and that power in numbers is beautiful. And surrounding yourself with, you know, those the individuals that help you rise up. I think is the best way to say it. Yeah.
Kim Meninger
Oh, this is such an inspirational conversation. Vicki, I could certainly spend the rest of the morning with you. But do you have any? I guess I have a two-part question here. Do you have any final thoughts? And then the second part is where can people find you? I know you're doing lots of great work in this space. Where can people find you to connect learn more about your work?
Vicki Bradley
Well, so we'll start there. And then I'll come back to final thoughts. But you can find me on LinkedIn at Vicki Bradley. Or you can also go on well empowered on LinkedIn, that's one L, I'm on Instagram at well empowered Facebook at well empowered, but predominantly, you know, my, my two main narratives are Instagram and LinkedIn. And then you can also visit our website at wilempowered.com. And that's WILEM, powered.com. And we have a great community, we do lots of networking sessions to bring great people. So you build your community. So I invite you to, you know, join our mailing list, so you get notified of when we do those things. So I guess parting conversation, Kim, would be take time to start to ask you set yourself some of the questions that we've, we've identified here and our conversation today. But what do you, what do you really want to leave as your legacy? Do we want to just go day to day and not be happy? Or do we want to really be fulfilled and happy? And so ask yourself those questions, what level of stress is in your life? And how do you start to shift that from reacting to responding and you know, one of the one of the offerings that I provide is development around conscious leadership. And so teaching individuals how to become more responsive, teaching about anabolic and catabolic energy, and helping you really build muscles with your responsive nature, so that it becomes natural for you to do that versus just those knee-jerk reactions, which is so common in our society today. So those would be my parting, parting words. And Kim, let me just say thank you. This has been a great conversation Thanks for providing a platform to be able to come on and, and you know, just have dialogue and I hope that your audience enjoys and that they will pick some nuggets from our conversation today.
Kim Meninger
Well, thank you, Vicki. has been my pleasure.