In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about power. Many of us reject the idea of power because we don’t like the concept of power over others. My guest this week, Noomi Natan, reframes power, not as the power to control but as power from within. And most importantly, she shares that power is not about us. Connecting with our inner power is not about self-service but about being of greatest service to the world around us. She also invites us to ask ourselves, “What am I a channel for?” to ensure that we’re maximizing our value.
About My Guest
Noomi Melchior Natan is an internationally-experienced leadership coach and founder of the Female Inner Power Club. She is also the host of the podcasts Leadership Behind the Scenes and the Female Inner Power podcast.
Noomi has more than 15 years experience of helping helps leaders and business owners generate the results they want, while also increasing their joy. Noomi’s work centres on embracing being fully human in every part of life, including work. She often helps unlock deep layers of imposter syndrome and other success blocks, by diving into patterns that were created all the way back in the client’s childhood.
Noomi specialises in deeply transformational work and has helped clients working in a wide range of industries from the owners of micro-businesses to CEOs of major household names. She is a certified coach, NLP practitioner and has a certificate in Adult Training and Development from the University of Toronto. She is also qualified in Family Constellations and Organisational Constellations.
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Website: www.noominatan.com
Instagram: @noominatan
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Oh, welcome Noomi. It's so wonderful to meet you. I'm loving our conversation so far and I would love to invite you to introduce yourself.
Noomi Natan
Thank you. Well, I'm thrilled to be here, because impostor syndrome is definitely something that shows up again and again and again in my coaching work. So I'm, normally I have been coaching for more than 15 years. I'm an executive coach and courage catalysts, and also the host of newly released female Inner Power podcast that went live. At the time of recording, it was a week ago, I got my first paid coaching client at the age of 27, which this was back in 2007. So you can do the math of my age. At that point, there was not a coaching school in every corner as it feels like there is now so it was quite unusual to be 27. And doing leadership coaching. And I remember coaching people that were mostly like double my age, I didn't see them, because I did phone coaching most of the time. So that was quite a fun experience. And I remember hanging up the phone from that very first coaching session, just felt so incredibly excited. I was like, wow, I have made it and I get paid. And I get paid 22 pounds 50, which is not much difference in dollars. Because that was working, why a consultancy? But I was just thrilled that this was possible. And I still feel the same joy and excitement, I don't charge 20 to two pounds 50 anymore, in case anyone's wondering, the price has gone up. I still feel such I'm sure you feel the same like this privilege of sitting with wonderful humans that are wanting to do great things in the world. And they're trying to figure out how to do it at a bigger scale, but in a way, that's good for them and good for their families and good for the work. And often they share things that they haven't shared with anyone that it didn't even know themselves beforehand. So I feel the same kind of joy and privilege I did 15 years ago.
Kim Meninger
And I'm curious because you were in the earlier side of your career when you started Did you experience any imposter syndrome when you started your own coaching practice?
Noomi Natan
Well, I had a quarter-life crisis, time off work at the age of 25. So I had two weeks off but clearly wasn't enough. But I had two weeks off with stress. I think they called it stress because that was like an acceptable term. And at the time, I don't know if I would have planned Placidus imposter syndrome. But it was maybe the best friends have impostor syndrome, you know, high inner critic, high perfectionist. So impostor syndrome is really close buddies. And I had been promoted twice really quickly. So on the outside, I was doing amazing. I'm from Denmark, originally, and I was living in London, I'd been living there for a few years. But what tends to happen, I think this is often what happens to many people when they have a crash, or, you know, suddenly, it's too much. It's not one thing, it's layer after layer. So my inner critic, coupled with my inner perfectionism, coupled with more responsibility, coupled with my support system, disappearing a bit because people left London, because when your phone or you meet other foreigners, and all of that together had me very depressed very low, not quite knowing how to be good enough. So I didn't know that was maybe a form of impostor syndrome. But it was more feeling like the inner critic was beating me up constantly. And I just didn't know how to show up and be happy. And I didn't know how to live up to the responsibility. So what changed? Well, so I had two weeks off. I had already done personal development beforehand. So I was relatively aware, I started doing therapy and then went back to work because the ambitious me wanted to go back and deliver a conference, I was a conference producer, that point and there was one coming up. And I was like, there's no ways I am not delivering it. I'm not handing it over to someone else. So I went back to deliver that. But at the same time thought I need to exit this job. I tried to move around and get another job within the organization, which wasn't possible because where it was, they were very happy having me because I was making lots of money for the organization. And one of the things I noticed was when my values didn't align with what I was doing, it didn't really work for me. So part of it wasn't wrong, the work I was doing, but it just wasn't my heart wasn't in it. And that was problematic for me. And so I did massive amounts of soul searching, and I left that job. I think this is often where people have they leave and then they think it will be better right? But we take ourselves wherever we go. And I had a bit of commission money. So I thought, Okay, well, I have money for a while I had this other corporate company, this client of mine that had been interested in hiring me. So they said, well, we want to hire you. And I was like, Wait, I've quit, I'm ready. And they're like, Whoa, we're not ready for you yet. And it's like, that's okay. I want some time off anyway, I'm not ready yet either. But like, I'm basically available. And they're like, Okay, that's great. You know, that fits like in three months’ time, we'll be ready to hire you. It's like, great. So I had this space of time, it was a blessing in disguise, this job never happened. But it was a blessing thinking I had this job. Because I remember going to Pilates sessions in the middle of the day and during their personal development, and just having the space to kind of think and reflect and recovering. And Job never came. So in the meantime, London's very expensive, so not earning was not an option. And I started temping, I started taking a job that didn't have any responsibility at all. I just didn't want responsibility. So I did that for a while. And then I met an executive coach. So my old company wanted me back for something I wasn't interested. They tried to ask me what I wanted to do. I was like, something people like I didn't even know what it was, but something people and bless the CEO of this company put me in touch with two people. One said, Hey, you're in a catch-22. You don't have experience, you can't get any. By the way. That's not true. I have later on learned, you can always get experience. That's a very common, unhelpful thing. People say when you want to switch careers and switch areas. The other one said, hey, I'll meet with you. And he met with me for two hours. And those two hours changed my life. And at some point in those two hours, he said, you want to do what I do. And my jaw just dropped because like, I had done this for fun. And I'd been part of personal development. He said, but you're not ready, said, What do I do? And I was finally feeling better. It taken me like, six, seven months to start feeling stronger, again, from, from this time off, and it does take time, right? But it was good for me at that period, I think often people think then I need to hold time off, it was very good for me to have this temp job this work without responsibility. But like we were showing up, and I was, you know, showing up in the world. And I was making some money. And he said, it doesn't matter. You're not ready yet. So I went and took a job. That was totally wrong, I could do it. But it wasn't right. And then going in there thinking I want to do that coaching thing. And so I was there for, I think just about a year and I left on a salary training to become a coach and got great advice, how to get experience when you don't have experience, you get a coach, you start coaching friends for free. And you know, you just get on a roll like you're just whatever it is, you can always get experienced, you know, later on when I wanted workshop experience and people said, oh, we can't hire you for workshops, you don't have experience? Well, I just started hosting workshops, you just make it happen for yourself, which I think is, you know, such an important thing that you can always take the next step.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I love your story. And I think you're absolutely right, we get we're meant. we're led to believe either through other people or our own assumptions that we're locked into these boxes. And it's interesting because I've hesitated to go down this path in how I think about the inner critic, and how we talk to ourselves and the relationship we have to our work. Because I know that this comes from a place of privilege, right? Not everybody can have a career that they're like madly in love with their work, et cetera. I mean, and so I don't want to take that for granted. But I do think going back to what you said about the misalignment of values, that a lot of times what's happening when we don't feel good about ourselves and our work environments is it's not the right fit for some reason, right? And so we're it's easier to blame ourselves than it is to admit that this isn't the right thing. And then have to be faced with that daunting path of how do I figure out what is meant for me? And what do I do if I don't have that experience? And so we often feel like we don't have time, or we'll never get there. And so it's just easier to say, well, if I just change if I just am more perfect, or you know, I just work harder than I can make this work, and unfortunately, usually doesn't lead to that.
Noomi Natan
Yes. And I also think that when we start thinking about dream work and the purpose in the world, we tend to get so impatient. It's like, well, if it doesn't straightaway, it's going to make me money. If I straightaway don't know how this will change things, then then then it's not the right thing. I think, like you've probably come across so many people that say, Oh, well I had a great experience of being coach, and I like helping people. So I think I want to become a coach. And I'm like, Well, that's one thing you could do with helping people, and loving talking to people. And you can do that in a million different ways. You know, and so I've coached people in all fields that their passion isn't necessarily their job title, but it's what they get to do. It's the vehicle of that. And so sometimes, in a shift can make the role you're in more fulfilling, and like, it's not necessarily always like, Oh, well, then I want to be this, but how will ever make money being that and it's like, you would wait, maybe you could flex it, if you really love writing, maybe there's a chance you could write more in your current job. If you really love connecting with humans. Okay, well, well, how could that be more part of your role? And so it's not like a total? Like, okay, well, I just have to do one ad and do something totally different. And as you hear my story, it wasn't like a straight from the moment I figured it out, too. I got there, it took a while. And after I started coaching, it took a while before and some more money. And I guess I was fortunate in that I was single, and I was I didn't have any kids. And I didn't have any responsibilities. And I lived simply and that was that worked for me for a period of time. But if you're later on and you have responsibilities, there's so many ways that we could, you know, shift a little bit. And people often think, Oh, well, that's not is that really going to make a difference. But a little like, in a few years, like if you keep making smaller tweaks makes a massive difference.
Kim Meninger
That is such a great point. I'm glad you said that on both ends, right? Because I think that small shifts within your current role can make a huge difference. And a lot of times we assume that this the current situation is fixed, right? This is the way it needs to work, or this is the way we've always done it. So there's no possibility for flexibility. When in actuality, if you know what you enjoy doing, or what you're really good at, you can be even more valuable. If you double down on that and go to your manager and say, I'm at my best when I'm doing this type of work, what possibilities exist to do more of this, right? Because in making those assumptions, we continue to do things in ways that aren't fulfilling to us. And when we do that, we're not giving our best to our organization as well, right? So it's to everybody's benefit for all of us to speak up and say, I like doing this more than I like doing this that to me, doesn't mean we'll get away entirely from things we don't want to be doing. I mean, I'm my own boss, and I still have to do things. Right. But there's more freedom there. And the great thing about it is that we all love different things. So if I speak up and say I love doing this, and someone else loves doing the things, I don't like to do them, we all get to do more of the things that bring us fulfillment.
Noomi Natan
Absolutely anything to anyone listening, if they're wondering about how to start with that. It's like notice the days where you, you're tired, but, but like, it didn't really feel like work you like you were lit up, it was fun. It's like a different kind of tired those days. It's like, okay, what was it that made those days particular fun graded, I enjoy this, what was it about it and really drill into that. And then also, you know, leaders always say, Well, don't come with the problem, come to me with the solution. So like coming saying, I don't enjoy my job, I don't feel motivated by it. I'm not fulfilled with it. It's like, every leader goes like, I don't know what to do with this person. But if you could come and say, Listen, I'm not sure we can change this instantly. But here things are really enjoy, I could see that this part of the business because really use this or maybe I could take on more of this project, or, you know, I aware that then I would like to let go of this. And maybe that can happen instantly. If you come with a solution, and you're proactive and going, here's something I'm really passionate about, here's something I think I really excel at, here's something I'd love to do more of. And I could see how that could be beneficial to the organization. So you straightaway set it up as a win-win. And it's and then becomes much easier for people to say yes to rather than I'm not motivated, you know, fix me, which is much more the victim position that's like, I'm not happy at work, you sorted outline manager and the line manager goes like, Well, I'm not sure I'm happy either. I don't know how to fix that. You just got to get on with it. Like that's just how the world work works, right? So it's very much in there like you shifting and US shifting ourselves and knowing like a little shift can totally transform how things feel. But it's we've got to go back get into our personal power, which is about I always talk about inner power, right? It's like the and people feel so conflicted about the word power. I don't know about power, because the word power has been misused. Button, but everyone knows they don't want to be powerless.
Kim Meninger
Ooh, I love that. So say more about what inner power means to you and like what, what? What's the reframe around power that makes it more accessible to people?
Noomi Natan
But me the old power paradigm is I have power if I have power over people, right? It's the old fearful patriarchal society. I have power over power over you. I am a leader because I have a team Even that reports to me, I have this many people in my department reporting to me. Whereas the inner power paradigm and what I work with, it's not it's not just men and women, it's the feminine and the masculine. Because you can be a woman, I mean, classic example is Margaret Thatcher, you can be a woman, but leading totally from the masculine, and everyone knows her. So it's such a classical example, right? So it's not about your gender, but it's leading from the feminine and the feminine power paradigm is like, I am in my power, I am taking responsibility for what is mine, and I am lit up, I am showing up in my power. And so when you're in my presence, you remember how great you are, you're going to feel better about yourself. Because I'm not showing up in victim but I'm also not trying to power over, I'm going to see the best in you, because I remember the best of me. So it's like, we're going to stand side by side. And it's much more leadership, like I would say, the birds what is called murmurations. People taking turns to lead. It's like, who cares really who that official leader is, yes, someone might have more overall responsibility. But the best is one, we're all in it together. And then we take times to lead and we have different qualities we bring to and we have different periods also where we feel stronger. I mean, we're not, we're not machines, we're not bringing the same quality of energy every day. That just is the fact that we think we're going to perform the same every day of every month, like no men or women. That's not the case, we have periods where we're going through grief, we have periods where we didn't sleep well at night because I don't know we had toothache or we had children that were waking us up at night. And some days, we still show up and we still have energy. And we're like, yes, I've got this despite not sleeping and other days. We're not so that bit of like I'm in my power. And that invites you to be in your power too. And I know that my power has got nothing to do with having power over anyone, which is fear. It's nothing to do with actual power.
Kim Meninger
And so when you think about getting to that point like for, for people listening, who maybe really appreciate that concept, but don't feel like they're there yet, how do we close the gap?
Noomi Natan
So if we make the link from there, and, and bring back also impostor syndrome. So me, what I find is that so many people are told, okay, you need to be more assertive, you need to be more confident. And that usually has the people that I coached the most. Lock a little bit because it sounds like well, to have to be more full of myself, like, that doesn't sound nice. I don't like those people that seem self-promoting and seem full of themselves. And so I work with a concept that I call being the channel. So for me, he had helps people believe there's something more to the world. We could call it being spiritual. But I've said and I started saying this more and more people. And even when they're like, not sure about the spiritual piece, they kind of get the concept because it's kind of like, all you've got to do is say, Thank you, whatever, whether you believe it's God universe, whatever the gene lottery, you just say thank you, thank you for the talents that I've been given. Thank you for the experiences I've had, for better and for worse, right? We learned something from all of them. Thank you for everything that I have experienced so far. What am I a channel for when I am nervous about whether I'm going to say the right thing, when I'm nervous about whether I'm going to be too much or too little or get it right, or step on someone's feet or whatever it is, then it seems that I'm being humble. And I it's better because I'm not arrogant. But actually, I'm being very unhelpful. Because where am I focused? I think I'm focused on other people. But really, I'm focused on my inner dialogue, all my fears and worries is what I'm listening to. That's all I'm hearing, I'm not really present in the room and hearing my own dialogue that's going on now. Maybe this person won't like me, and maybe I could lose my job. And I might not get my promotion if this happens. And I don't know. And they said be little bit less like that or more like that. I'm not I don't know how to do that. Just listening to myself. So instead of say be the channel, what are you a channel for? What is the kind of information that if you don't speak up, in won't be said So recently, I had a client and she said, Well, I hear all of them go round and round. And to me, it's really clear. So I was like, Okay, well seems like you're really good channel for clarity. Like, things make sense to you. She was like, Yeah, that's it. Okay. So when you don't speak up, they go round and round in circles and there's less clarity on the table. She was like, yes. Okay. So speaking up is not about you. It's about you contributing. It's about you being useful and anyone that I'm coaching, they usually are like, I'm not about the ego. I'm about impact. And I like to have fun. I think joy and impact go hand in hand. And so it's like, Thank you, but why am I the channel for them? Well, Another way of thinking of it is like what am I the spokesperson for? So I had a designer years ago. And she was like, they told me to be more assertive in meetings, I need to speak up more blah, blah, blah. This is why I got coaching. And she says, I can't be bothered speaking up. I do say things, but they don't listen. And so I don't want to say it again. I don't want to be like these other people. Said, Okay, well, when your voice isn't heard, what's not being represented? And she thought about it, she was like, Well, my role is the use of perspective was like, Okay. She said, Well, finance and marketing are being heard, because they're very good at speaking up. They're very loud. And the salespeople speak up to us like, Okay, so the product ends up being less good. The user experience ends up being let's go to his leg. Yeah. When they don't listen to me, the user get worse experience, they get a worse deal. I was like, Okay, so is that motivation to speak up? And she was like, Yes, I would never do it for me. But I'll do it for that. And she actually ended up because she's a designer, creating little figure that she took with her to meetings to kind of go remind her that this is who I'm speaking up for. This is my purpose. It's not about me. And so totally bypassing this bit about why does confidence look like and I do do work around that. But this is like a bypass of that of going wait, what am I channeled for? What am I spokesperson for, and then you get to be powerful, but it's not about you, it's about the impact and who you're speaking on behalf of, or what you're speaking on behalf of.
Kim Meninger
I love that so much that's so consistent with how I think about things too, because I really do think of it as being of service, right? And what you just described is very similar to the framework that I often recommend, which is if you're, if you're behaving in ways that are making you anxious, or you're uncertain about or self-doubt, is creeping in to ask yourself, Am I coming from a place of ego? Or am I coming from a place of service, and sometimes coming from a place of ego looks like trying to look like the smartest person in the room, right? I want to be on you know, I don't want to be humiliated, I'm gonna flex my muscles and bully other people into my idea. Or it could be like you're describing I'm in my own head, I'm listening to my inner critic, I'm not actually making an impact of any kind. I'm not serving anything by doing it this way. So which path available to me is in greatest alignment with service versus ego. And if you kind of keep that framework in the back of your mind, it becomes a check for you, as you're moving forward in these uncertain situations. And you're absolutely right. It's not about us, right? It's how can I be of greatest value. And in our roles, that's what we're there to do. So I love really staying focused on which voice Am I here to represent? Or, you know, what, what am I here to do? What's my purpose for being here, so that I can ensure that I'm adding value, not making it about me?
Noomi Natan
I'm sure also, this is how you're staying consistent with your podcast, right? Because it's about the service of it. Because, I mean, having a podcast myself, this is not the quickest way to get a following is not the quickest way to make any money. For anyone listening. It takes a lot of effort and a lot of investment to make a podcast happen. And to stay with it. If you were doing it for your ego, you I'm sure he would have stopped long ago. So like, I mean, what's your, what are you doing it for? Like? How, what are you showing up for Right? Like, with your podcast, you must be showing up for something of being of service.
Kim Meninger
That's exactly right. You're absolutely right. I mean, this is, this is a labor of love, right, because it takes a lot of time. And I do it because I'm on a personal mission to de-stigmatize the experience of imposter syndrome and help people feel less alone and, and understand what they can do differently to better manage their own confidence and their own experience in the workplace. So, yeah, I think that's a really great way to think about it. And we often feel, particularly as women, when we say things like, oh, you know, oh, it's not about the title, right? It's about the title. And there's nothing shameful about that, right? Because that is an elevation of my responsibility, I'm making a greater impact. I'm saying to my organization, I want to do even more for you. I want to take on even more responsibility so that I can be of even greater service and I want to be recognized for that. Right. And I think that so often, we feel like, Oh, that feels icky, right? Like it shouldn't be I shouldn't care about the title. I shouldn't care about my compensation, but no, you're you want to be adequately rewarded for your willingness to give of your skills and time, right?
Noomi Natan
Absolutely. Absolutely. So I think that you know, the bit that you're in service of right and it keeps you it sustains you and keeps you going when the going gets tough because it does no matter where you're at, and like you said, I think it's so important that as well. and normalize talking about ambition. Because it's been like, oh, well, who are you power-hungry, money-grubbing, bloody blah. And it's like, Wait, what the men have always done that. And the world does not change unless those that are reluctant to go for the power, go for the power. And it's not I think most of the, I'm sure we have similar type plans, like the clients we have. And I'm sure that those that are listening here, it's like, I don't want the title for the sake of the title. But it's like, Wait, here, I can have a bigger impact. And I always I mean, a very often said, with clients when I like the values, and again, here, they're interested in societal issues that go like, hey, so did you think about going into politics? personal mission, we need a new breed of politicians. And I think we need a different kind of leader. And so when people say, but I don't see anyone, you know, role modeling how I want it to be, and I don't see anyone doing it how I want to do, I'm like, Yeah, that's the reason why I need you, I have two daughters, I want the world to change. Like, you won't do it for yourself, do it for my daughter's the piece of it won't change, unless we dare say, hey, yes, I'm going to lead here, I'm going to lead, I'm going to step forward, I'm ready from what impact, I'm gonna show up, and I'm going to be willing to get it wrong, I'm going to be willing to let you judge me, because that's one of the risks of, you know, they will actually, it's not just a risk, it's a certainty, they will judge you, they will judge you. And it's like, but that's gonna be worthwhile, because I'm, know what I'm here for. Like, of course, I should have massive compensation because I need to look after myself and my well-being and everything, I shouldn't have to worry also about how I fund it all. But that's not that was not the end goal. That's right. And gold is, is the impact, and he needs to feel great being me, and I am here for a reason. And that's what sustains us.
Kim Meninger
I love what you just said too about a new breed of leadership, right? And I really worry that the people who fit the profile that we're describing of, you know, under sort of more naturally humble, less ego-driven, but really have strong values and want to make a difference are going to opt out because they don't see themselves. And then it becomes self-perpetuating. Right. Only the leaders who fit this outdated model that doesn't work for anybody are going to continue to take on those roles, and we lose out on this opportunity for change. And I think that goes back to what we were talking about earlier when it's that seeing what, what we see today as fixed. As opposed to this is one way of doing things. It doesn't mean it's the only way of doing things. And you called yourself a courage catalyst. And I think that's really at the heart of a lot of what we're talking about is having the courage to challenge the status quo, right to accept that. Just because this is what we see doesn't mean as this is what it has to be.
Noomi Natan
Absolutely, yeah. And I didn't realize at first I was this, this was actually because I was like, well encourages people that want to, that's when you want to jump out of a plane and I couldn't think of anything worse. And I only ever gonna want to do that right. And so, but I realized later on that, yes, I do have that. And I inspire that in others, because for me, it was like, What are you here for, like, dare to let it be bigger than you and dare to go, I am going to show up for this. And then I'm going to see what happens when I'm really going to show up for this. And what you said is so important those words of like, when you are courageous, you're going to challenge the status quo. And for sure, if you challenge the status quo, you're rocking the boat, and people even if they want to change are gonna go through what happened here. And there's going to be fear and there's going to be anxiety and there's going to be some people that had a lot of vested interest, maybe they don't want they might have lots of unconscious bias, but their vested interest in the system as it is. And then they go Wait You did what he challenged the way it has always been this is how leaders have always been in our organization. And this is how we always run meetings. And these are the hours we want. You, you want. I mean, COVID did a lot a lot of good and not a bad one of the things was, hey, you can work from home and you can trust people to work from home. They, they, by the way, work too much now, like they work ever more than ever, and it's really bad. But, but that bit. So what happens when we challenge the status quo, we're risking our belonging, and humans are wired for belonging more than anything. We do weird and wonderful things in the name of belonging to feel like we belong. And it is scary. to challenge the status quo and to challenge the system, even in a smaller way, because you could risk being out in our system. It's like oh, I might lose my job. Maybe I'll even lose my career. These people that judge me a very influential in my industry. Maybe I did they will speak about me badly. And so I think the risk is real and it requires massive courage and That's why we need to know what we're doing it for like Rosa Parks, the famous freedom fighter, she has a quote that says something like, Knowing what must be done does away with fear. I don't know that it does away with fear totally. But knowing what must be done, has to kind of go that's more important than my fear. [Yes.] And that for me, it's a bit of like, what's more important? When I get to the end of my career and of my life, whatever, will I go, “Well, I was always a little bit afraid, and I almost spoke up, but not quite. And that was okay and I kept myself safe.” Or will I go, “You know what, I found ways to constantly expand my courage and constantly expand my ability to speak truth and to find ways to speak truth in a way that we could keep shifting things and changing things.” And will I go, wow, I had men's butterflies but that was worthwhile?
Kim Meninger
That is such a powerful way of thinking about it. And because we don't often think about our future selves, and how we're going to look back on the choices that we made. And if we can zoom out and really think about what will I regret more right, that I gave into that fear that I played small, or that I took that risk, even if it didn't make everyone happy? Because it never will. And I think just really, I love that quote that you shared, too. Because if you know what you stand for, and it doesn't really matter, there are always going to be people who are out of alignment with that I love this quote. And I wish I could remember who said it, I often posted on LinkedIn, this idea of like, I don't want everyone to like me, I should, I should think less of myself if some people did, right? And I think that's just such an important reminder that when you can find the why that's bigger than you. The right people will get on board with that. And you want to stand for something. And when you stand for something, it will naturally differentiate you from the people who don't share your values. And that's a good thing.
Noomi Natan
Totally, absolutely.
Kim Meninger
Oh my goodness, Noomi, I could talk to you all day. This is such an amazing conversation. And I think you've, you've given us a really good sneak preview into your new podcast, too, which I'm gonna link to in the show notes. Everybody can come and listen to more of you. Where else can people find you if they want to hear more and experience more of how you think?
Noomi Natan
Go to noominatan.com or noominatan.com forward slash everything and then on the everything page you can find free paid and everything, all the offers. And yeah, that the website, the podcast, and I also hang out on LinkedIn. So you can also find me there. I have an unusual enough name that it's easy to find me. Well, thank you so much for the inspiration and for the insights. This has been such a great conversation. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.
