In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about well-being. What does well-being look like to you? This is a question we don’t often ask ourselves but, if we want to be “successful,” it’s important to consider. My guest this week is Meico Marquette Whitlock, a well-being strategist. Here we talk about how to prioritize well-being individually and collectively. Meico shares 3 powerful questions to help us identify what’s within our control and take small but meaningful action steps to improve our well-being. He also offers insights to help us better influence the well-being conversation in our workplaces.
About My Guest
Meico Marquette Whitlock is The Mindful Changemaker and The Mindful Techie. He works with changemakers who want to improve their well-being so they can sustainably increase their well-doing in changing the world.
He is the author of the Amazon bestseller How to Thrive When Work Doesn’t Love You Back: A Practical Guide for Taking Care of Yourself While Changing the World and The Intention Planner.
He has worked for more than two decades across the non-profit, public, and private sectors leveraging information and communications technology to improve well-being in underserved communities as a software and web developer, communications director, trainer and facilitator, and mindfulness teacher.
As a transformational speaker, trainer, and coach, he facilitates transformative experiences that foster well-being in a hybrid world. He has worked with organizations such as the U.S. Federal Government, Cigna, and the World Wildlife Fund, and has been a featured speaker on ABC News, Fox 5, and Radio One.
Meico is a former triathlete, loves salsa dancing, and makes the world’s best vegan chili!
He holds an M.S. in Information Science from the University of Michigan and a B.A. in Political Science and Spanish from Morehouse College. He is also a certified trauma-informed mindfulness teacher.
~
Connect with Meico:
Website: mindfultechie.com
~
Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:
Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.
Learn more about the Leading Humans discussion group
Join the Slack channel to learn from, connect with and support other professionals.
Schedule time to speak with Kim Meninger directly about your questions/challenges.
Websites: https://kimmeninger.com
Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Meico. It is so wonderful to meet you. I'm excited for our conversation, and I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Awesome. Well, thank you for having me excited to be here to talk with you and hopefully share something that might be of value to the folks that are listening. So I am Meico Marquette Whitlock and I describe myself as a workplace well-being strategist, and I work specifically with mission-driven teams and organizations across sectors on creating a culture of well-being inside our organization so that we can do the great work that we're doing in a more sustainable way. And I come to this work as someone who has worked across sectors, primarily in government and nonprofit, and I'll share really quickly just a story about how I came to this particular juncture in my professional work. About a decade ago, I was working for an organization that was focused on ending HIV and hepatitis both domestically and internationally, and I was hired as the first-ever full-time communication staff person for that organization. And so what that meant is that I was tasked with building out a department, creating a strategy, putting in place all the processes, like all the wonderful things that come with building a new team and a new department for folks that have had that, that under being able to do that work. And I really enjoyed the work. I was passionate about the work I've been involved in in some form of public service throughout most of my career. But if I was honest, as I think about this role in some of my previous roles, I was often feeling like I was on the edge of burnout, trying to do so much to move the mission forward, and constantly feeling like I was coming up short, that there one there wasn't enough time and resources to get it all done. And at one of my lowest points, I found myself in a place of really deep depression. I was overweight, and I was really disengaged from what brought me to the work in the first place, and that was really, fortunately for me, a wakeup call where I realized that I could actually drop dead from overwork and have my legacy be that I was good at managing emails and managing projects and but that wasn't the ending that I wanted for myself, and I realized that there are so many folks like me who are doing this important, mission-driven work that are in similar situations. And that low point for me was actually a turning point where I began to ask the question, if everyone is burned out doing this work, if we've normalized this, if we created a culture around us where people sort of create a revolving door. People either leave, they go on sabbatical, they come back and they rinse and repeat that who would ever be around long enough to do this important work? Who would ever be around long enough to really fulfill the mission and vision of these organizations? And that was a starting point for me, personally, in terms of shifting what I had disengaged from in terms of my spiritual work and my personal development work, and that was a shift in terms of how I began to engage my team differently and talk about what they needed outside of just the professional skills, but what they needed on a personal level, in terms of building that personal resiliency, having those skills people to navigate those kinds of stressors in the workplace. And that started this beautiful journey that I'm on now where I made a decision in 2017 to quit the job that I was doing. It's like I want to take this beyond just what I'm doing for myself and this organization, but I want to bring this to the sector, into the world, and so that was the start of this journey for doing what I'm what I describe as helping folks to have well-being while well doing.
Kim Meninger
Oh, I love that expression, and I love the way that you talk about coming to this topic too. Because I think for many of us, we just think it has to be this way, right? We don't realize that it doesn't have to be this way.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yes.
Kim Meninger
So how did you, how did you navigate that with your, your sorry, my one second. Sorry about that. I just had a tickle in my throat that I had to, had to tend to, but I guess what I was trying to ask you is, you know, I think a lot of us are on an individual journey when it comes to this experience. We, we may or may not realize that we're on the edge of burnout, and I really love that expression, but we don't necessarily feel like we have the power as individuals to do anything about it. And so, and especially, you know, if we don't have any other frame of reference, we might just think, oh, this comes with the territory. I just have to do it. And I'm watching everyone around me navigate it, usually very quietly, so they seem like they've got it all together. And I start telling myself the story, that it must be me, right? So how do you get from a place of recognizing your own individual experience and then saying, I want to do something at a bigger level?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Absolutely. So I think in the more general sense, just speaking in terms of how I work with teams and organizations, I think that place really starts with helping folks to understand that they're not alone, and just really validating your experience right where you are. So we're not trying to change anything. We're just simply just get to a place where we can acknowledge, where we can express where you are. And I think for me, at the start of my journey, I was fortunate that I had personal and spiritual tools, a community that I could pull on. And part of the, the learning from that, as I realized I had disconnected from that, because sometimes when we when we show up in the professional workplace, when people ask, you know, how was your weekend, at what you did, people aren't always interested really in that, right? They say, bring your full self, but we aren't always interested in that. It's sort of like an unspoken thing that bring yourself to work, but don't bring all of yourself to work. And I think part of what I was experiencing was I felt like I couldn't bring those aspects of me that were nourishing me to the workplace as fully as we talk about inclusivity and all those wonderful things. So for me, one way that I think about this, in terms of to your question, from my spiritual path and my personal development work, is that I'm not a victim to life, right? That life is always happening for me, that it's not happening to me. And being reminded of that helped me to really understand in those moments where I was in my darkest place and when I was beginning to make this turning point, that despite the external circumstances and situations that, that are, that are very real. I do have some autonomy in this situation. I do have resources. I may not have all that I need, I may not have all that I want, but I do have access to some things. And so how can I tap into those things? How can I make affirmative choices about the things that I do have control over, and for me at that at that low place, I literally asked this question, like, what is in my sphere of influence in this moment? But what's what was in my sphere of influence was okay? Well, I can make a decision about how I'm choosing to show up for myself and for my work, and I can make a decision about how I'm choosing to manage the team that I have autonomy over inside of my organization. And once I, I realized that, and that was really the start of sort of okay, what can I do now that I realize that I have this choice?
Kim Meninger
Yes, I love that so much because I do think big part of burnout too isn't just overwork. It's a feeling of lack of control, lack of power, lack of autonomy, right? And I think you know, it happens gradually, but we sort of accept the reality around us as fixed and assume that we don't have choices. And I love that. What you're saying about just recognizing that, however small, right, we always have choices we can make.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Absolutely and it's one of the places that I start when I work with organizations. You know, one of the there's, I think there's a wrong door in terms of, terms of how you begin to shift culture inside an organization, from a burnout culture to a culture that is what I would describe as a culture of wellness or well-being, and often, one of the places I start with teams and organizations is with simply acknowledging number one, like where let's acknowledge where you are, and let's acknowledge that you have external things that might be impacting some of the challenges that you're experiencing. And we can also acknowledge that even if we put all those things on the table, there are still some things that you can do as an individual or within your teams that can begin to shift how you are experiencing work, that can begin to shift how you are experiencing wellness and engagement with your life and, and, and in your work. And so an exercise, for example, that I might give folks is, you know, if you were to give yourself 10 minutes, for example, to call HR next week, put that on your calendar and just inquire about what benefits you have, right? Just, just inquire, you know, do you have support for grief counseling? For example, if you're grieving. Do you have support for mental health support, if that's something that you need? Do you have access to discounted or free fitness classes or passes for your, for your local jam? And that really begins to start people to really begin to think outside the box and say, You know what I I do have when I've stacked all of these small things together, I do have enough to begin to help me to deal with my current situation and over time. What that does is it builds the capacity of you to be able to deal with some of those larger things over the over the long term.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I think it's, it's great to do that kind of research before you need it. I. I answer. It's really hard to strategize when you're in a crisis. And so to be, you know, to in a neutral moment, say, I think I'm going to check out my benefits so that I know what's there if I need them.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yes, exactly.
Kim Meninger
And so one of the things I wonder about is whether you have seen at a macro level or a micro level, issues associated with stigma as it relates to this. And I think part of it is, I'm maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I do think we're, we're getting more comfortable talking about mental health in the workplace. I think it's certainly not perfect, but it's, it's, it's also better than it had been. But I also see a lot of people in you know, I tend to look at things through the lens of imposter syndrome and anxiety. I work with a lot of people who put a lot of pressure on themselves, and there's often that individual feeling of I should be able to handle this, and if I'm not handling it well, it's because there's something wrong with me, or I need to work harder, or I'm not as good as the people around me. So it's not the system that's flawed, or, you know, it's not a lack of resources. It's a lack of, you know, my own ability to do the job. And I wonder, yeah, in your conversations.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
So, yeah. So you know, every, every organization is different and but it's not uncommon for a person or a team or, you know, maybe there's a culture inside an organization where there is, there is this stigma that in the way that you, you described it, and that's, that's very real, and it's one of the reasons why, one of the first is, I start with organizations, is around this place of acknowledgement and sort of normalizing what people are feeling, and that you're not alone in this, and that, for a lot of people, can be a place of sort of being able to breathe a sigh of relief, to being able to release some of that, that pressure, and to say, You know what, yes, This is how I'm feeling, but I'm actually not in this by myself, and that can be the start of then beginning to figure out, okay, well, how do I begin to move forward? What's the next step I can take to constructively address what I'm what I'm dealing with and inside of organizations, in terms of addressing this? One of the things that's key to that is you actually have a leadership team that is modeling this so that you have, not only encouraging folks to take advantage of it, but you have a leadership team that you know, your boss, your supervisor, the CEO, et cetera. They're actually modeling what you're asking or what you're expecting of folks inside of an organization on the opposite side of that, one of the things that I'm hopeful about is that I a lot of the teams that I work with, I actually see where there is a normalized culture, or people sort of addressing and talking about their mental and emotional well-being, having a robust set of resources to address those encouraging people to take the time that they need for themselves. And in some instances, we see maybe like an overcorrection, where people show up and they're like, Well, I have this particular issue with ADHD, or I have this particular issue with anxiety, and it's like, well, you deal with it and you work with it, and you figure out how to work around me. And so, so, so there that there's a range of ways in which this, this shows up, but it's very real nonetheless.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that’s a really good point. And, you know, I wonder if there are specific no if objections the right word, but like, when you start this conversation, are there things that you generally hear in terms of resistance, like, what are the things that people push back on? Where are they uncomfortable with thinking about this?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
I, you know, I think one of the biggest things is around, you know, do I have time for this, right? That I think that's a that's another thing that, that's one thing that folks sort of surface. It's probably one of the first things that surfaces for lots of folks. I think for some folks, there's a healthy skepticism about what impact or what transformation can look like for them, and I think part of it is bound up in the fact that what we're talking about is, as I describe it to folks, is an ongoing process, and it changes based on the season of life and work that you find yourself in. So it's not a flip of the switch. It's not a checklist of things that you do and you're like, Oh, I'm done. It's an ongoing journey and process of assessing and reassessing where you are, what you need and constructively engaging with at the, at the micro and the macro level, what you need to, to navigate whatever place you might find yourself in. So that's another place as well where there's a skepticism, which I think is healthy about well, is this actually going to have a meaningful in. Impact on, you know, for me. So those would be two things that I would probably bring to the surface. I would also say that in terms of how I interact with organization, at least at the point that I'm engaging with organizations, organizations are generally reaching out to to me, and so there's already some level of buy-in by the time I am working with them, I very rarely work with teams or organizations where people are being forced to to sort of show up for something, or be forced to be a part of a journey with me. And I actually advise against that. I'm a very big proponent of extending an invitation, giving people options, recognizing that there is no one right way to approach it, including, for me, that there might be certain folks that resonate with how I show up and how I express and how I connect with folks. Some folks might not connect with that, and I don't take that personally what my invitation is to how can I support you in finding what might work for you?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I think that makes a big difference if you're invited in, versus you feel like you're trying to sell them on a concept that they haven't gotten to themselves yet. [Exactly.] And, and I'm wondering too, because the, the topic that we're discussing right now is so complex that, how do some of the other really important themes fit into it, like psychological safety, right, or inclusion and belonging? Like, you know, it's great to hear that there are organizations that recognize that they're ready for more help, and they're coming to you. But do you find that there are other things that have to be addressed first? Or can you do them in parallel? Like, what does that look like?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
I think you can. I mean, everyone dish is obviously different, but I think you can do them in parallel. And my approach to this is, I want to start where the client is. I want to meet you where the client is. And so even though I take perhaps like a I'm always thinking about what the macro looks like, or what is a systems level view look like. If an organization comes to me and they say, Well, you know, we're really just having an issue with burnout. You know, we're moving into a really intensive fundraising season. Folks are feeling overwhelmed. We're moving toward the end of the year, and folks are just really feeling burned out. I start with just validating what the client has told me, recognizing that at a systems level, that burnout is probably a symptom of a of something much larger, in terms of how the organization is, is working. Perhaps it has to do with some, some internal or interpersonal conflicts. Maybe it has to do with maybe leadership styles or management styles inside the organization. But I start with okay, how can I help an organization or person experience relief right now and then we can begin to, over time, address those, those deeper issues. It's, you know, it's very similar to what you we see if we look at like a medical model, where, if someone is in crisis, you know, typically, what medical professionals are doing is they're treating the symptoms of that sort of that, that, that bigger crisis. First, you stabilize someone, and then once they're stabilized, then we can talk about the other list of things that might be co-occurring that we need to address, to address the wellness of you as a as a whole. Does that make sense?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that’s actually a really good analogy because otherwise I feel like they might never get started, because it just feels like we're, you know you had used the door, they talk about what door to enter, and I think it's probably the case that there are lots of organizations that know they need help, or they know need they need change, but they don't even know what the first bite looks like, right? Yeah, where do I start? And then that really ties back to, I think what you were talking about, too, of really looking at what's within your sphere of control and influence. Because even though there's not necessarily one right answer, if you take control of what you can in this very moment, it's going to have a cumulative effect, right? And build momentum as you move forward.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Absolutely and you know, working in an organization at a macro level, it's the same conversation, right? When I'm starting at it's like, Well, okay, well, you know, budget time, etc, all of those are very real constraints. And so from my perspective, as I think about this, I'm thinking about, Okay, well, if these are your constraints, then I know that you might not have all the things that you need or want right now. But what can we do with what you do have? How can I point you in the right direction based on the constraints that you do have? So I always see it as a, as a, as, as a starting point. Or perhaps another way to think about it is, okay, here's the you're on a continuous journey. Yeah. And here's the place that you're at on your journey right now. How can I support you with where you are on this journey, recognizing that you're going to continue to move forward? But how can I support you with moving forward, right? Do you need help changing your tire? Do you need, you know, do you need gas for your you know, whatever it is, if we're using like that, this analogy of an automobile. What do you need in order to get back on the road and make it to this next stop on your journey?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I really like that. And I wonder, when you talk about what's within your control, there are probably people listening who are saying, like, I have minimal control. I'm not a manager, right? I don't have a lot of influence over what are some of the things that if you don't manage people, if you're not in you know, higher up the hierarchy? Are there certain things that you would encourage people to think about or to do to maybe even influence people above them to consider this kind of a conversation?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Absolutely. So I think the first place always is to start with any type of change, particularly if you're talking about external changes, to start with yourself. So I, the one of the ways I think about this is, for folks that have flown a lot, perhaps you've heard it one time or another, the imitation or flight attendants that if you know any event of an emergency, you know the oxygen mask might drop down to support you, and if just to really secure your own oxygen mask first before you step up to help someone else. Right? So I think that's one of the first places to start. Is like, what do you need for yourself to nourish yourself, to fuel yourself first, so that you then have the capacity to sustainably support someone else, and just sticking with the individual for, for example, for a moment now, there are a few questions that I could give someone as a starting place, so particularly someone that doesn't feel empowered, right? The first is, what is your own personal vision for what your well-being, what you want your well-being to look like, right? So in the next 30, 60, 90 days, if you could just use your imagination to think about like, what, what would you want your well-being to look like or to feel like? That's the most people's capacity to do, right? I'm not asking you to, to achieve that right now. I'm asking you to ask yourself, what would you like to see in your life? What would you like to see in your work? Right? What resources do you have access to right now, I know that there you don't have all the things that you want, or you may not have all the money, the people, the relationships, etc, but what do you actually have access to right now? Do you actually have health insurance? Do you have a supportive manager? Do you have a professional development stipend? Do you have the ability to take a half day or a full day off, and, you know, the next, you know, quarter or so what? What are those things that you actually have, resources that are actually in your in your bucket right now to have access to. And if you really make it even more granular, give you one more final question here, which is, okay, so now we've done some visioning. We've perhaps done some brainstorming about resources that we have access to. I'm not asking you to do all these things or make a drastic change overnight, but if you could just pick one thing over the next seven days that would take you 15 minutes or less to do, what would be that one thing? Right? I gave you the example of calling HR before, for example, maybe that's requesting time off a half day or full day. Maybe that is, you know what I am going to prioritize sleep. So you know, on Sunday I'm going to make sure that, actually, I'm going to go to bed maybe a couple hours early so that I can wake up refreshed on Monday morning, like, whatever that might look like for you. What's that one small thing that you can do in 15 minutes, that you can commit to, to do? So that's sort of the individual aspect of it, but for an individual that's trying to influence larger change, that's the starting point, I think. And then a secondary thing that I could offer in terms of a practical tip, if someone is listening to this conversation, for example, perhaps you could share this with your team or with your supervisor, with the decision-making in your organization, and something along the lines of, Hey, I heard this really interesting conversation, some of the things I think maybe we might be able to implement inside our organization. Perhaps we could have this as an agenda item really quickly at our next team meeting. Or perhaps, could I just share with you some thoughts about this at our next one-on-one that could be the start of a of a conversation. And part of what that does is that takes you out of the loop as the, the messenger or the, or the expert, and you're simply passing it along, right? So you're passing it along. I say, hey, like these are what the quote, unquote experts say, you know, how would you how? And you're sort of gaging, you're sort of offering it, you're extending an Invitation to sort of start a conversation.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that's a great idea. I think, yeah, I think that's another place where we tend to doubt ourselves. Is, oh well, you know, I don't have the expertise myself, so I don't want to go too far down this path, or else it's going to people are going to find out that I don't know what I'm talking about, right, as opposed to just being the facilitator.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Exactly. Exactly.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I know this is a hard one too, because it's all going to be dependent on the situation, but do you think it's there's a way to kind of think about whether or not you've exhausted your options, and you just need to leave the situation like, at what point do you decide I've done, I've, you know, I've done everything that's within my control, and this just isn't working for me.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yeah, so I that's very real, and it's not a conversation that we often have, but it's often it is a place I invite people to go. I think it's a healthy place to go, and one of the ways that you can get to this place is, you know, with these questions that I just gave you, for example, these three questions, if you're having a regular check in with yourself, maybe a monthly or maybe a quarterly basis, and you're lining up where you are with this vision that you have and the resources that you need, and sort of all the things that you have done that opens up your capacity to be able to make some honest observations about where you are compared to where you want to be, and it's okay if, in the professional context, your organization is not aligned with that and you need something different, right? And so being able to ask questions like this and reflect on these on a regular basis can be a practical way to support you in doing that. Being in community of like-minded folks, particularly outside of your organization, can be supportive as well. That can give you that sounding board to really understand, like, what's quote-unquote normal in the professional context, and you have sort of different perspectives that you can gain from and that's just critically important, number one, so that you just understand that you're not alone in this, right? And then you're able to get a different perspective on that. The final thing that I will offer is for folks to be clear about what is the nature of life and work versus what is something that may be untenable inside your organization, something that I observe a lot, particularly in the nonprofit space, is sometimes people are searching for something, and it manifests as job hopping. And I'm not saying that there isn't necessarily anything wrong at the organizational context. Perhaps there is something that's a bit challenging or maybe unaligned for you in the organizational context, but sometimes it's not the organization that's the issue. You are the center of all of your experiences, and so you want to make sure that you have the support, whether that's with a therapist, whether that's with this community of like-minded folks, or whatever that looks like for you, to be able to understand the distinction between what is a dysfunction in your organization that you feel like you can't live with, versus what is perhaps something that is in your own sphere of influence that is actually impacting how you are experiencing work or how you're experiencing your, your organization, it's important to be able to make those distinctions. And sometimes maybe the one of the ways that we figure that out is by making the leap of faith and making that transition, and then we realize, oh, okay, well this I'm having the same issue that I was having at this last organization. So maybe it's not the organization.
Kim Meninger
Yes, that’s a great point, and I like the way you said that, because I always say like, you're the only common denominator in your career. And if you're finding that you're having same issue wherever you go, it's probably worth taking a look at, a closer look at what your expectations are, or maybe it's your, your opportunity is to practice setting better boundaries, or, you know, not necessarily the, the environment, that's the problem, right?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
And I, I would offer one more thing, which is particularly with mission-driven professionals, I think there's a tendency to want to seek out what some might describe as sort of 100% alignment. And fulfillment. The reality is that there's no person, place or thing or situation or title or role or organization that can do that for you, and it's very rare that folks find, I think, what some people are searching for in terms of that that that sort of alignment, right? Most folks do not find that in their lifetime, right? And so I'm not sure that the best advice is always to be pursuing, I guess, quote, unquote, like you hear this, like your passion for the perfect role, the perfect organization. Perhaps an alternative way to think about this is, you know, with your gifts, your talents, your skills, thinking about the opportunities and pathways that can support you in in in and, and being of service to that. And so I just want to offer that as maybe a different way to think about this, this question that you're asking as well.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I think that's a really good way to think about it. And I too, have that hesitation around encouraging people to follow their passion, because I think it sets the bar very high, and there are a lot of ways to find fulfillment in our work that. [Yes.] I It's like, like you're trying to find your work soulmate, right? That makes me [yes] to get to that and, and I also think, you know, when you think about having these conversations at work, and this one is particularly aligned with some of the mindset challenges that I often see is there's this fear, there's this fear that if I ask this question, that I'm going to look like I'm less committed, or I'm going to look like I'm not able to do the job. But the way I think about it is that, you know, we can, we can, we can sort of set aside the and own for a minute that you deserve to be in the role that you're in, right? If we just assume that, like you're doing the job well. Because everybody that I work with a high achiever, [yes] high performer, that if you have that conversation, what you get in return, either way is data, right? Because either you're gonna get support that you're looking for and find out that there is more possible than you imagined, or you're going to find out that your manager is not willing to provide the support that you think is important to your well-being and to your ability to do your job well. And I would personally rather have that information and be able to make an informed decision about what I do next, then to live in this, you know, what if, or anxiety-bubble, you know, like I don't actually know what my manager is willing to provide because I haven't asked.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yes. And I think part of that is connected to one of the things I work with, with individuals and teams, is around constructively navigating, sort of the emotional and mental turbulence that is inevitable, right? It's an inevitable part of the human experience. You use fear as an example. I remind folks that fear is a natural part of our human experience, right? From an evolutionary biology perspective, we understand that it's something that has served us and continues to serve us in terms of just survival, right? But in the modern context, sometimes it can be overactive and it can indicate danger in ins where maybe there isn't. And what we want to be able to do is to acknowledge and understand that, and, you know, begin to build the skills and the muscles that we need to be able to determine the difference between when we need to be taking action versus it's just sort of noise in the, in the background. And one of the ways that I describe this as sort of like if you, if you have a puppy, and you're out and about, your puppy's barking at everyone and everything. It's perhaps misguided and thinking that it's protecting you in the, in those instances, because it doesn't know the difference between a threat and sort of what's, what's a friendly thing or person or place. And over time, you know most puppies can be trained to respond differently, right? And if you think about befriending your fear and sort of those, those heavy, those what we might consider maybe in some ways challenging thoughts or emotions, we can learn to be with them in a way that they're not overwhelming, and we can learn to constructively work with them and to be able to discern, okay, what's, what's the helpful information that I'm getting from these thoughts and these feelings, and what is sort of the noise that I can sort of tell to like, I see you, but like, now is not the time please have a seat, right you get when you begin to. To develop those types of skills and to be able to put what's happening mentally and emotionally in those perspectives and those frames, it becomes easier for you to have those conversations like, what you're, what you're talking about, and you have a healthy understanding that fear is natural. You have a healthy understanding that disappointment is inevitable, right? Like, no matter how perfectly you show up or do a thing, someone's going to be, you know, disappointed, or you're going to disappoint someone, and that's okay. And we get to practice forgiveness, right? We get to pack, we get to practice grace. We get to practice compassion. Like all of these things are, are connected, and I think we, we, what I hope is that we can normalize, supporting people and embracing the full range of these ways that we show up mentally and emotionally, so that we can have healthier connections that lead to, you know, greater well-being in the workplace and beyond.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, oh, that was so well said. I really appreciate that, because I do spend a lot of time thinking about that as well, and we're all trying to put on a performance when we're in our workplaces. And sometimes, you know, I think the stress, it gets the best of us, but the, the ability to acknowledge the fundamental, you know, human experience, like you're describing it, just it. It goes back to what you're saying before too, this idea that we feel less alone because we are, we're all sort of battling the same forces, right? And if we're just silently doing that and thinking that everyone else around us has it all together, then we're on this very lonely journey, and we lose access to all of these great resources and community that's available to us, and just make it harder than it needs to be.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yeah, and I you know, when you really boiled it down, I think when we can be more human in the workplace, that gives permission for other people to be more human, and that creates deeper connection. That deeper connection allows us to have more effective collaboration, deeper engagement with the mission. It allows us to be able to have those honest conversations where there might be conflict or friction or disagreement, and we can recognize those as healthy things and not things to be avoided. And that's ultimately what we're talking about. We're talking about creating a more human experience, or maybe creating more human workplaces. Maybe that's one way to think about it.
Kim Meninger
Yes, yes, I love that. And my gosh, Meico, I can spend all afternoon talking to you. I love what you're saying, but in the interest of time, are there any sort of final thoughts that you have, maybe things that we haven't gotten to yet, or anything you want to reinforce?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Yes, I would. I would just reinforce for folks that this is an ongoing journey, and it's okay to start wherever you are on the journey, and it's okay to start small, actually invite that sometimes the overwhelm that we experience is in thinking that we have to do all these things that we think we have to do in order to be perfect in a particular area. But what if you were to just ask yourself, you know what? What, what is the one thing that I have the capacity to do right now in this moment? And how about I do that thing? And if I do not have the capacity to do that one thing, then who can I ask to support me on this journey that is, I think, is a solid place for, for most folks to start, and hopefully that's accessible for, for most folks, as a starting place on this journey.
Kim Meninger
That is a fantastic place to start, and for anybody who wants more of you, your support, your insights, where can they find you?
Meico Marquette Whitlock
You can go to my website, mindfultechie.com, so that's M-I-N-D-F-U-L-T-E-C-H-I-E dot com, you can learn more about my work. And if you want to join the email list, you can stay up to date on the insights that I send out periodically.
Kim Meninger
Perfect. And I will make sure that's in the show notes as well. Thanks again. Meico, this has been fantastic.
Meico Marquette Whitlock
Absolutely. And thank you for having me on.