In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about staying confident while looking for a new job. This is difficult under the best of circumstances but is particularly true when you’ve lost your job. How do you stay connected to your strengths and bring your best self to the search process when you still have lots of unresolved feelings? My guest this week, Debra Boggs, is the founder and CEO of D&S Executive Career Management. Here we talk about how to confidently navigate your job search. In addition to discussing higher-level strategy, she also offers great practical tips on how to measure progress, how to reach out to your network and how to update your LinkedIn profile.
About My Guest
Debra Boggs, Founder & CEO of D&S Executive Career Management, is an award-winning entrepreneur, international speaker, and recognized expert in executive career growth, C-level job search strategy, and board candidate best practices. She was recently honored by Forbes as a NEXT 1000 Entrepreneur and is currently a member of the Forbes Business Council. Additionally, she is a founding Member of the Career Industry Authority and holds a master’s degree in Management.
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Connect with Debra:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debraboggs/
Website: www.dscareermanagement.com
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Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Debra. It has been such a pleasure chatting with you outside of the recording. I can't wait to officially start our conversation here. And I'd love, love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Debra Boggs
Absolutely. Thanks so much, Kim. Yeah, it's been a ton of fun already. So yeah, I'm Debra Boggs. I founded about eight years ago, and now run DNS Executive Career Management. We are an executive career firm, which means we work with VP, C-level and board-level candidates to prepare for and navigate their high-level searches. So we're not a search firm. We don't do placements. But we say we're like the home stagers to make a luxury property look expensive before it goes on the market. So that's a lot of fun. We really enjoy working with people that do really amazing work in the world, and helping them amplify their impact by getting their next roles and board seats and things like that. And when I'm not working, I live on the coast of Maine. I've got two young-ish boys, we've moved to teen years 13 and 10. And so if I'm not working, I am absolutely doing something baseball-related with my kids.
Kim Meninger
Our boys are very similar than mine, or nine and 13.
Debra Boggs
So yeah, so you feel me?
Kim Meninger
Yes, I do. And I would love to hear how you got here. Because starting a business is a big deal. And it usually involves some kind of a big decision and a turning point in your life. And so how did this happen?
Debra Boggs
Oh, wow, so true. And it was a turning point. It's so I tell people, the short answer is It was an accident that snowballed and took over my life. The long answer is, I had been working in higher ed, I had what I thought was my dream job, which was to lead a Career Services Department. I thought that was like the end all what I would retire from, and I was really, really excited about it. But what I realized in that opportunity, and in that role is the piece that I really, really loved, was helping job seekers with their confidence with their getting ready to put their best foot forward to go for the stretch role. They didn't think they could get or go for the stretch salary that they thought was outside of their reach, right? And I just loved that piece. And so I actually when I left that role, kept doing it on the side as a passion project. And really, was helping job seekers with resume writing and job search strategy and things like that. And it really did start to snowball, I got a lot of referrals, things got crazy, I was working full time. My husband is a stay-at-home dad and I am really spoiled and was not interested in changing that. But I thought What could this business be if I could take the leap and do it full time and see what happens? Right? If I could really focus on building and growing something. So you know, talk to my husband about it, we kind of went back and forth and I, and I bring my husband up because I was able to really take the leap, and with full faith, right? Because if we don't have the confidence in ourselves, and he had full confidence in, it'll be fine. And we're you know, and if anyone can do it, you can do it. And so I took the leap. And so I started this business as a solopreneur. So fast forward through several iterations, I say we're on DNS 3.0. Today, because it started as a solopreneur. A few years in, brought in operations leader in to take over some of those things that are not my wheelhouse to help us scale because I felt like what could we be if I could get out of my own way. And if I could focus on the areas that I do best. And so I actually brought a past client on, she's still with me today. And, and then we you know, we scaled again. And now we're kind of in that iteration of 3.0. So it's been a journey, it's been a lot of iterations, it's been a lot of work on my own self-confidence and, and leadership abilities. I worked with an executive coach for a while on my own stuff, because I thought, as my team grew, and our clients were growing in their, their expertise in their, in their, you know, levels and things like that, you know, we were working with really high profile people, and then, you know, you get all your confidence issues with that, right? Like, oh, my gosh, they're C-level Google, why would they want to listen to me and all of these things, and so, and my team isn't gonna tell me what I suck at. So I think that journey of working with an executive coach was really helpful to, to help me kind of get out of my own head. I keep little post-it notes all the time around my desk, like reminding me to kind of get out of my own head. So. So that's a long answer to a short question.
Kim Meninger
No, that's perfect, and the enduring power of the sticky note and post-it notes. I just feel like I see that all the time. And it's just so I think the easiest way to keep those visual cues and reminders available to you because sometimes we just forget.
Debra Boggs
Exactly, yeah, I keep a revenue goals on there for the year I keep my son my 13-year-old made fun of me. You'll your audience may really enjoy this because I think I struggled to say no especially to clients. And I work with a communications coach Cindy Skokie. She's amazing. And we're talking about you know, how do we say no when clients want something unreasonable or when they want something right away and we just can't accommodate or it's gonna cause a ton of issues. And she said, you know, say Yes, and, and then give them you're like, Yes, I can do that. And they won't be till next week, or Yes, I can do that I'd be happy to help you. But I need you to do XYZ or Yes and it's going to cost this much money. And so I keep this on my desk to remember, it's okay to say no, I just do a yes. And so I bring this up because my 13-year-old saw it on my computer and was like, did you forget to finish the sentence? Like, why is half a sentence? Such?
Kim Meninger
That's adorable. And that is such a great reminder too because I think you're right. Many of us say Yes, before actually thinking about what am I committing to? Because we're afraid of letting people down we want. We want to help we want to do our best work. And but it's not always a simple yes, right? Yes, and I'm going to need more resources if you want me to get this done, right?
Debra Boggs
So, being able to say something that sounds much more natural to me than No, no. sounds bizarre coming out of my mouth, yes. And then also putting in the pieces that you need to make that happen well, or give them some skin in the game or whatever it may be. It was a really, it's been really powerful for me, our whole team is working on it. Well, because we all struggle with the same thing, right? You get into this business because you want to help people and then at the same time, that can drown you pretty quickly. Right? And so we've all been getting good at it. Yes, and.
Kim Meninger
Well, I love that you said that about the whole team working on it because one of the things that I think about when I think about boundary setting, which is very much aligned with what you're saying is work on it collectively. Because if you work on it individually, you're trying to create change in a vacuum and other people don't necessarily know what you're trying to do or why and then they have their own resentments about why do you get to say this, and I don't and so I love the idea of if you're a part of a team, you just kind of have the team established, what are the norms? What are we want, what do we need in order to do our best work to live our best lives, and then let's support each other in making that happen.
Debra Boggs
It's so true setting those boundaries are so important, and you don't want it in a team environment like ours. Like we're all remote, we work across different time zones, but we all will touch a certain client project at the same time, or throughout the lifecycle of the client project. And so we've had to get really clear about the boundaries within our team of you know, don't answer things in the middle of the night, don't answer emails, on weekends, don't deliver things on weekends because if you're doing that, then you're changing the expectation of the boundaries for the whole team. And we want people to be you know, if you work in the middle of the night, or if you work on weekends, that's great. But schedule your emails, so that so that it's not changing the expectations for the rest of the team who choose not to work those off hours.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that's a really powerful point, I, I do that too, because I do a lot of catching up on email on the weekends. And I will always schedule them to go out Monday morning, not to bombard people on their weekends.
Debra Boggs
I'm not as good at that. But I will send it to my team and say like ignore till Monday. They've gotten used to I work Sunday mornings, just to catch up, same thing, but they've gotten used to like, Oh, if I'm sending something on a Sunday morning, ignore it. But it's all internal, not like externally, I could get better at scheduling my own stuff.
Kim Meninger
New sticky note opportunity. So tell me about what you're seeing out there. I know, we're, we're living in a pretty volatile time in history, you know, I think some sectors are being hit harder than others. But there are definitely a lot of people who are have been affected by the layoffs and downsizing reorgs and just there's been a lot of sort of monolithic kind of, it's been very tumultuous. So. So what are you seeing out there?
Debra Boggs
You know, yeah, it's been, and I know, I've been, I've been saying this to people for at least two years now but it's just a weird job market. And it used to be, you know, pre-pandemic, even 2020, I could say with pretty certainty like this is going to happen next quarter, or that's what you can expect to visit that. And now I've started to executive recruiter who said the same thing, like we try not to make predictions out loud anymore because it's just weird. But what I will say is, you know, if you're being affected by a layoff, or you think a layoff is coming, or you're worried about the longevity of your role, or you're thinking about job search, just remember that, like, the job search process is really lonely. And so the things that you're going through aren't necessarily like you're not alone. People are going through the same things, but people aren't talking about this feeling. So, like in our work, you know, every single level, people are worried about what's next or whether they're hireable or things like that. I'd worked with a C-level gentleman from, you know, name brand like everyone would know this company. He was CEO, he got let go. And he said to me, like, is anyone gonna want me am I gonna find a job? Like so I think people at every single level struggle with that process and, and so. So I think that we just need to remember to give ourselves some grace in that process and just know everyone's feeling this way, it's okay to feel loss or grief or anger when you leave the job. The other thing I would say is if you are leaving a job unexpectedly and as much as you have the ability to take some time and some space to process, because I know high achieving women, especially and I say this to all of my clients to like, want to hop straight in, you want to have action, you want to have movement. But sometimes you're not ready emotionally, you're not ready mentally, you need to take a little break. Sometimes people haven't taken a break, since they were a teenager and needing that time to decompress. Think about what's right for you think about what's next for you, will help the rest of the job search be much, much more intentional, and effective. And a lot of times even shorter because you're not going into interviews with all of these negative thoughts and feelings that are coming through in the process. And can really bring about the next job that you actually want the compensation you want. If you take some time to just think about it, get prepared, give yourself some space.
Kim Meninger
I'm so glad you said that I think about it's like a palate cleanser, right? Like if you just go from one to another, you're not setting yourself up for success. And it's really hard when you're making decisions from an emotional place, right? Because it is a hard thing. If you if you lose a job unexpectedly, naturally, it's going to come with a confidence hit. There's a feeling of even, even if you understand intellectually, all of the business reasons why it happened and why it makes sense. It's personal. It feels personal, right? It affects our lives. And I think you're absolutely right to be emphasizing how until we've given ourselves the chance to process through those feelings, even if we don't think we're doing it. It's come through in our body language and the way we relate to other people. And then if you're not ready, yet, you started having these conversations and they don't go well, it's going to have a compounding effect.
Debra Boggs
Absolutely. Every time you and I'm so glad you brought that up, because you're absolutely right. The other thing that I'm talking to jobseekers all the time about is like, you know, especially if you've had a confidence hit through a job loss, or even if you just started job search, and you think like this isn't gonna be hard or whatever. Or last time you did a job search, it was easy, because there's a different market or different circumstances. But when you start that search, if you're not, if you're not prepared, or there's something wrong and you know, breaking down in the process, or if you're going through the wrong channels, which we can talk about in a minute, you know, job search channels for opportunities, you're gonna get rejection after rejection, and every rejection is hurting your confidence and making it even harder, right? It's like a self-fulfilling cycle, right? And so sometimes it's okay, let's take a step back. And let's look at what's happening. Okay, you're not getting interviews, well, then maybe that's a that's a resume or a channel issue. As far as like how you're taking yourself to market. A lot of executives, I see really go back to what they're used to and what like, move the needle in terms of like checking things off the to-do list, which is going online, online applications, not a good channel for executive and senior level leaders. But high achievers need action and doing, right? And so they're going to what's familiar, they're like, Okay, I applied for 15 jobs to shoot, I got 15 rejections. That's because it's not the right job search channel. Or people will say, Well, I'll go work with a recruiter, same thing, and they'll get a bunch of recruiters say, I can't help you, I can't work with you. And that's not because their experience isn't great. It's because they're not the right candidate to work with a recruiter. And there's all sorts of reasons for that. And so that also hurts the confidence, right? And so it's like, take a step back, see where it's breaking down. And then the third one that we usually check in with is, okay, you're getting a lot of interviews. Alright, so resumes fine job search strategy, and the channels you're going through are fine. Why aren't you getting the offer? What's happening in the interview process? Do we need to take a step back and have some outside some outside perspective on what might be going on and maybe that's where, you know, if you've hopped in too early, maybe the desperation or the anger or the resentment is coming through or, or your use of blind spots you don't know about? But I think getting a handle on those things, rather than just dealing with rejection after rejection after rejection, and then thinking it's you, right? Because we don't know that these things are common.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's, I'm glad you expanded it even further to all of those different areas. And I'm curious how you think about helping people pull out their strengths, right? Because when you are in a confidence low, you're not necessarily thinking about your highlights your career. And so to be able to communicate them to somebody who's writing their resume, like you or to somebody who's looking to hire them, networking, content, contact, right? It's really hard to tell it's hard in the best under the best of circumstances to talk about ourselves in positive ways because we you know, we All kind of feel a little bit icky about doing that. But especially when you are struggling with confidence challenges, like what are your thoughts on reconnecting with your strengths during this time?
Debra Boggs
Here is such an important, an important point because I think and especially as women, you know, we're not I tell my female clients all the time, we're not socialized to say, look at how amazing I am, let me tell you about all these things I'm great at it is uncomfortable. And even amongst my own team, myself included, most of us are women, we write each other's bios because even though we write bios all day long, it is very uncomfortable to do that for ourselves. So the one thing I would say is, you know, focus on having some outside perspective help you with it, whether it's a resume writing firm that does a deep dive interview, you know, not a forum because that's not helpful if you can't articulate your value anyway. Or, you know, or have a friend who, you know, really knows you well, or a past coworker you've worked with, like, really talk about what you know, what you do, well get some outside perspective. The other thing I would say is, you know, hindsight is 20-20. But I will say, just like you said, you know, when you lose a job, it's you go into panic mode, you go into high stress here, you know, it's, it's a reactive emotional time. And that is not a great time to write a resume, you're not at your best, you're not at your most confident. And so honestly, if people come to me and say, and I want to start writing my resume that they just got laid off, and they have the runway, I know, not everyone has the opportunity to do this. But if they have the runway to take some time, I will say, you know, we're not going to touch this for like three weeks because you're not there yet. So my point to telling you, that is, for any of you that can think about your resume, or thinking about pulling your accomplished accomplishments together, throughout the year. You know, even if you're not putting it in the resume at the time, like, you know, gathering all of your accomplishments, your highlights, things like that, when you're at the top of your game and not at your lowest point will really help you have a much stronger content to work from. And even if you're gathering from like, all of your previous employment reviews, or your you know, your annual reviews, things like that, like gather that stuff as you go so that when it's even if you're not doing a resume, I would love to have everyone always have the resume ready to go. But even if that's not the case, like have this content because if you lose a job, then you're thinking like, oh, I can't remember anything I did, clearly I didn't do anything good, or I wouldn't have gotten fired, like, oh, what does it even matter? Like, it's just it's a, it's a bad place to write about you at that point. And then the other thing I would say, you know, around the skills is the very first thing for everybody, regardless of where they're at in their, you know, whether they got laid off, or they're just looking for the next best thing. When you talk about reconnecting with your skills and your accomplishments, the, the most important piece is to get a really clear picture of where you're headed. Because I think we think about our resumes as this list of everything we've ever done. But especially as we get to our midpoint in our career, and above, that list gets really long, and it gets really irrelevant, right? And so having a really clear picture of the type of work you want to do, the type of companies you want to serve the things that you do well, the things that give you energy because then you can write your resume towards those opportunities. Rather than trying to be all things to all people or trying to list things that you don't really want to be known for do again, you know, I can think of a ton of things I've done in my past careers and you know, different roles. And even in this company that I can do, I have done, I don't really want to do again. So getting clear on that will help you focus your accomplishments too.
Kim Meninger
That reminds me of I once heard somebody say your resume is not your full catalog, it's your greatest hits.
Debra Boggs
I love that. That's such a great point. And my colleague, Michelle Merritt said on the podcast the other day, you know, your resume is about you but it is not for you. And so you're not writing about everything you've ever done. You're writing about what your audience cares about.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, that's a really important reminder. And it seems like common sense when you think about it, but when you're in the mindset of it, it's hard to remember that. And it's hard sometimes to disentangle ourselves from all the details because we remember all of the pieces of it, right, so to be able to extract just the relevant parts.
Debra Boggs
It's so true, it will even tell some of our clients like when we send you your new resume back, it's going to be uncomfortable because we've removed XYZ and we removed it because you don't need it anymore, and no one cares. But I think that's where like having someone that's not emotionally attached to that stuff is helpful. Because yeah, you want to list it because you lived through it, you did it. It's you know, you earned it. And at the same time your audience doesn't care, or it's not what I want you to think about as it's not serving you to get to where you're headed next.
Kim Meninger
Yes, that's a great way to put it. And I want to go back to what you said earlier because I think this is a really important point to have. Ideally, tracking that stuff along the way. Because it, to your point when you're in a job search, even if you're the one who's choosing to do it, usually we're choosing to look for a new job because we're unhappy where we are And so there's an emotional component. Obviously, there's levels of intensity. But it's hard to make rational decisions when you are feeling like I just need to find the nearest exit, or, you know, this isn't working for me anymore. And so if you get into the practice of just regularly keeping track of these things, then you have all of the information at your fingertips when you need it. And that's also in my mind, a competence strategy in and of itself because our brains are so hardwired to notice all the things we do wrong, and then we breeze right past all the good stuff. And so it slows us down long enough to recognize like, oh, actually, I'm doing some really amazing things right now. And, and so I think just kind of getting if you, if you're not doing this today, you can start any time, just keeping that journal in whatever form works best for you. So that when you need it, it's right there.
Debra Boggs
So important. And if you work in a workplace that has annual reviews, or workplace reviews, you know, even if you don't still have them ask HR, they have to give them to you, the other part of your employment records. And so they will give them to you if you push right? And if you've been laid off In most states, they're legally required to give them to you if you ask. And so I had a friend get laid off, and we needed to do her resume. She hadn't done one in a long time. And I said, you know, I need I need your you know, she was struggling with all the things we've been talking about it right. You know, what, what were her goals? Did she make her accomplishment, she was in a really bad place because the layoff had happened. And it was, you know, and I said, Well, let's get let's go through your performance reviews because I know you've been putting those together annually. And she's like, well, they won't give them to me, and I will call them back and tell them they have to, in your state because of where you live. And, and they did. And then we were able to pull all this great information to build her resume that so just push it a little bit. Sometimes you have to advocate for yourself too, especially if you're in that situation.
Kim Meninger
That's a really good point. I didn't know that. And I wouldn't have thought to recommend that. So I think that's really important for people to know, because one of the things I was gonna say is, especially if you're keeping your own records, store them in your personal files, because, unfortunately, right? You don't know when your access might be turned off. And you don't want all the great work that you've done to keep track of this to be, you know, part of the system that you don't…
Debra Boggs
That happened to somebody a client last week lost her job unexpectedly, she's C-level, she'd been keeping this whole running list of all of our accomplishments, but it was on her work computer. And she even said she's like it was a rookie mistake. I can't believe I did that. So it happens to all of us. And at the same time. It's such great advice. Don't do that.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, always have a backup. Oh, my goodness. What, what are we not talking about that you think is really important for people to be thinking about either. I like to think of everything as kind of a before, during and after right of like, you know, there are a lot of people right now who are on the edge of their seats, worrying that their job might be gone soon. Or, you know, they're, they're itching to figure out what's next. And then there are other people who are sort of actively in the job search right now. Like, is there anything else that you think is important for people to be thinking about right now?
Debra Boggs
No, you know, I think there's a couple things I think, you know, when, when we say before, during and after? Yeah, absolutely. Like the number one thing and I know, we talked about just getting clear on your focus and getting clear on the what that I tell my clients like what that ideal thing, if, if the perfect job came across your desk, what does that look like whether you're in a good role, or whether you're thinking about, you know, whether your jobs gonna have longevity, or if you've gotten laid off, like whatever those might be, get clear on what that looks like. The other pieces if you haven't already, get your documents ready. Right? And that includes LinkedIn, you know, we haven't been talking a lot about it. But even if you don't use LinkedIn a lot, it is a really, really important part of your job search. And I want you to think about, because a lot of people will ignore this piece, but your LinkedIn profile is typically your only opportunity to make a strong first impression. So your LinkedIn headshot needs to look like you would walk into an interview, right? What do you want to look like, if you walked into an interview live, that's what your LinkedIn headshot should look like. So you need to spend some time and intention on that. And same with your LinkedIn profile. It's okay if it's, you know, the same information as your resume because some people may see LinkedIn, some people may see your resume. But just make sure that if people are going to LinkedIn to find more about you, they get the information they need, right? And so we talk a lot about resumes, it's really kind of going hand in hand, and I tell my executive clients, if you're only going to invest in one, LinkedIn is actually more important. So you know, that's just a really, really crucial part of the job search. And then the other thing I would say is, especially for high achievers, especially for people in the in the stressful part of the job search, the job market is weird now, it takes a long time, it can take a long time. And so keeping confidence up during the process by setting micro goals is really helpful. And it's not around how many applications you submitted online because again, that's not always the right choice for everybody. But if it's around networking, or if it's around identifying companies you want to work for and not necessarily open jobs, if it's about, you know, if you're good. If you're a good candidate for recruiters, meaning you're looking for a really similar role than what you just left, and you, you know, you're not in a really niche market or a niche location, then maybe it's working with recruiters, but thinking about what those goals are to celebrate the little wins. Because what I find is, especially in a long job search, which, the higher level you get, the longer the job search can take. Every day you don't get a job is a day you feel like a failure. But really, those things can take months of leading up and months of little actions every single day to get to that ultimate goal. So rather than feeling like you failed every day, think about did you get an interview? Did you get a callback? Did you get? Did you have a networking call that was really valuable or enjoyable? Or, you know, did you take time for yourself? Because sitting at your computer 12 hours a day, and just sending out messages can make you crazy, too. So set small wins, so that you're not, you know, you're not constantly feeling that pressure?
Kim Meninger
Yes. I'm so glad you said that, too because obviously, you're when you're in a job search, your eyes are on the prize, right? Like you want that new job. But I love the way you said every day that you're not getting it feels like a cause you're not breaking it down. It's like all or nothing, right? Either I have the job I want to I don't. And in that it's really hard to sustain your confidence if that's the only measure of success because, to your point, it takes a long time. So I'm really glad you, you presented that perspective. And I also want to go back to LinkedIn for a minute because I think that there are varying levels of experience usage, you know, people have love-hate relationships with LinkedIn sometimes I think and, and I'm curious, because you mentioned that it can be similar to your resume, I wonder if you have thoughts on the summary piece in particular, which is often missing? I think a lot of people don't even take the time to put it there. And if there's anything you would recommend as it relates to tone, is there, would you recommend doing it in the first person? Would you recommend doing them the third person like what's the difference when it comes to formalities between resumes and LinkedIn?
Debra Boggs
No, it's such a great question. So a few things, you know, that summary section is so important. And that's the piece that's going to be different from your resume because it's not a piece that really like fits in the resume nicely, right. And that's where you have the opportunity to be a little more creative, show some personality, show your hobbies, maybe show, you know a little bit about you that is outside of the work. And really, it's also an opportunity for you to add for your highlights all in one place. Because most people are going to read the summary or your or like your first couple of roles, but they're not going to go deep into everything you've ever done. So that's a nice opportunity to do some, you know, like, across my career here, the major things I've, you know, done or whatever. But the data shows, you know, so they've done a lot of studies on what performs best on LinkedIn. And first person is best practice. And it's because you can add a little more personality, you can make more of a human connection, if it's third person, it's feels very stiff. If it reads like a bio, and you're not able to make a connection, but with first person, you're able to make a little bit more conversational a little, you know, a little lighter, and that performs best even it across all levels, right? And so, you know, focus on making that just a little bit lighter. And also, this is probably it seems obvious, but it's about when you look at somebody's profiles. Show, break it up, break up the content, no one is going to read every word about you. I tell my clients, like the only people who are going to read your LinkedIn and or resume word for word are your resume writer and your mom, no one else cares. And so you have to you have to like break it up and make it really easy for the reader so that your highest level of value and your key details aren't getting lost in the content.
Kim Meninger
Yes, that’s a really good point too. For moms aren't going to be the one we're not writing for our moms, for our moms. But I'm really glad you reinforced that idea about the first person because I do you think it's a you know, a neat opportunity to infuse personality. And if you remember, there's a human on the other side of this profile. Right? I mean, obviously there are, you know, there's a certain amount of algorithm involved in the whole process. But for the most part, if you're, you're hoping that actual humans will come and read your profile and, and they're going to be much more attracted to and engaged with a summary statement and, and everything else that speaks to them.
Debra Boggs
Great. Absolutely. And one more quick thing I would say about LinkedIn, I see a lot of men and women this is kind of across the board. But when you start networking when you start asking for help, right, which can be really uncomfortable. So I know a lot of women like don't want to be bothered or they don't want to you know we're great at networking. We're not prior to activating our network, and, and so when you sent those, like, you know, hey, I'm looking for a job, you know, or hey, I'm in the market. My point is, when you're, when you're reaching out to people, people want to help, but you have to make it easy for them. And so let them know what you're looking for. So like, you know, hey, I'm on the job market or I just lost my job, or whatever it is, you're gonna say to them, depending on how close you are with them. Let them know. And now I'm looking for these things. And here's my resume in case it's helpful to share with someone. Because I think so often we get these messages that are like, I know, I do all the time, where it's like, Hey, keep me in mind for a job. [Yeah.] Or take, you know, take a look at my resume and see if there's any opportunities that may align with my skills. I'm not going to take the time to do that, like, I need you to tell me what you want. And then I can put a square peg in a square hole, right?
Kim Meninger
Yes, yes, you're absolutely right. Because what you're really asking them is to do the homework of reading your resume and mapping it to any jobs that they may be aware of. And that's an that's an undue burden on your network, right? And I also see a lot of people doing a blast, right? So it might be a post that goes out to everybody. They may also be following up with individual messages. But I think that's important too, is to customize your outreach. Because what you're really, you know, people want to help, they want to feel like they can be helpful, but to your point, they're not going to do it if it's not clear what they can do. And if they feel like you're just mass messaging everyone, they just assume, right, like, Well, someone will help.. for me.
Debra Boggs
And the way you know, if they just do, they'll blast posts, which I see a lot is, is fine. If you already have a really active like, profile on LinkedIn, you're constantly posting anyway, things like this. But if people what I usually see is people never post on LinkedIn will post this, it'll be the first time their network has heard from them and forever. And the thing is because they're not used to LinkedIn, they're not realizing that not all of their network is seeing that post. It's the network that's on LinkedIn that day, first of all, and then it's the only the ones that like our, it's not going out. Like when you post is not going up to everyone you know, it's going out to a certain group. And then it kind of widens certain wallboard with algorithm stuff. But my point is, it's not a blast to everyone you know. And so it's not catching. It's not a wide enough net?
Kim Meninger
Hmm. And that's a really important thing for people to remember too. Because I think we think like, oh, I have, yeah, hundreds or 1000s of connections, this is the most efficient way to reach all of them. But you're right. I mean, the feed moves so quickly that people won't even see it. Yeah. This has been so incredibly helpful. Debra, you have given such great, I would say practical tips as well as really important insights around the confidence piece, because that is I think, the biggest challenge during these moments. And so just the micro goals, I think, you know, really taking that break, getting clear on what you want, not getting attached to skills or strengths that you don't want to be using anymore. But you don't want to be selling yourself into a job you don't want. So do you have any final thoughts before I ask you my, my question around where can people find you?
Debra Boggs
Oh, my gosh, final thoughts. This was a blast. And I will say, you know, the final thought I probably have for everyone and I tell my clients is to I don't know of anyone who hasn't gone back to work who wanted to go back to work. You'll your job is out there. It just may take a while. It's okay. You're gonna get there. It's a process.
Kim Meninger
That is really good to hear too. I like that. There is a job out there. We just have to sometimes you have to be patient to…
Debra Boggs
You won’t die cold and alone.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, is that patience is hard enough under the best of circumstances. But, but Deborah, where can people find you if they want more of you?
Debra Boggs
So best place to find me is LinkedIn. I'm super active with Job Search Tips newsletter all sorts of things daily. So find me on LinkedIn. It's Deborah Boggs, D-E-B-R-A B-O-G-G-S and, and check out our website, meet our team. We've got an amazing team of experts in the career space, and we'd love to meet you all.
Kim Meninger
Wonderful. So, I will make sure the links are in the show notes as well for anyone who is interested. Thank you again so much, Debra, I've really appreciated this conversation.
Debra Boggs
This has been a blast. Thanks a lot.