In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about pivoting to a second act. Many of us dream of changing careers but we stop short for a number of reasons – our careers are tied to our identities and we don’t feel we can walk away, we don’t believe we can make a living doing what we really want to do, we are afraid of the unknown, and much more. My guest this week is Shannon Russell, a career transition coach who supports professionals in pivoting towards their second act. Here we talk about how to get clear on what a second act might look like and how to move forward with confidence, including learning before you leap.
About My Guest
Shannon Russell is an entrepreneur, Career Coach, Course Creator, and host of the Second Act Success Career Podcast. She helps women in unresolved careers pivot towards a second act career that produces a balanced life of abundance. Shannon spent over 16 years as a Television Producer in New York City and Los Angeles working for MTV, E!, Yahoo!, Pop Sugar, A&E, TLC, VH1, etc. She then pivoted to open her own business running a Snapology franchise teaching children STEM education. Now, as a certified Career Transition Coach, Shannon coaches women on how to change careers, start a business, and follow their creative passions to the fullest as they produce their best life. Shannon’s company Second Act Success (www.secondactsuccess.co) allows her to share her journey from television executive to business owner(x2) and mom. Shannon hopes to motivate more women to make big moves in life and follow their dreams through her businesses and podcast. She lives at the beach in New Jersey with her husband, two boys, and her chow chow pup.
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Connect with Shannon:
Website - https://secondactsuccess.co/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/secondactsuccess/
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Shannon, I'm so excited to have you here today. And I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Shannon Russell
Sure. Thank you for having me, Kim. Yes. So my name is Shannon Russell, I was a television producer for about 16 years. And then when I started having a family, I had kind of an aha moment and realize that I wanted to be a more present mom. So I ended up kind of going through a soul-searching moment figuring it out. And I started what I call my second act. And I opened up my first business, which was a small franchise business. And then that led into me now trying to coach other women who are kind of in the same space. Through second act, success is my company. And now I'm just trying to kind of let people know that they don't have to feel stuck. And it's really great to start a second act and just see where life takes you.
Kim Meninger
It's so interesting because I, I guess I started my second act when I started this business too. And I never saw myself as an aspiring entrepreneur, when I started my career back in my 20s, I just assumed I was going to keep working my way through the hierarchy and just see how far I could get in. And it was having children that really shifted my priorities and made me start to think like how you use the word soul searching because that's how I think about it, too. It's like, you're moving at such a rapid pace, you don't even have time to ask yourself some of these deeper questions about who you are and what you want. And then you reach this crossroads. And it was like, wait a second, what am I doing, I don't even like what I'm doing. I haven't been happy for a long time. This is not using the skills and strengths that I pride myself on and want to be bringing to the world. And so I thought it was a really important moment to push that pause button. But I wish that it didn't take like a major life event. To do that, like, because I know how many people and women in particular are living this life and feeling like is this it? Right? Like, there's got to be something more. But there, it doesn't feel like there's an opening to think differently about doing something else.
Shannon Russell
Yeah, you're so right. And I think to so many women just go okay, well, this is, this is what I chose, this is where I am, I'll just suck it up. And I'll keep going. And it, it takes like, I feel like there's a smaller percentage of people who are like, I can do more, or this doesn't fit. Let me see what else works. And it's, it's important to at least encourage people, I think, to try to see what else they can do and break out of that because I always say we get one life. And why not check all the boxes, like you said, you know, we both I was the same as you like I want to stay in this career and never thought about being an entrepreneur never thought about anything else. Because I loved working in television. That was my dream job. But then something clicks and you're like, Wait, I don't think it all fits anymore. And I think it happens, especially when we have kids like you mentioned it just they change everything.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. And so when you were making that decision, what was your mindset at the time, like I'm imagining it was a bit of a roller coaster?
Shannon Russell
Well, especially because my husband is a television producer as well. And so we were both living in Los Angeles when we had our first son. And it was kind of like this rude awakening where everyone else, we were the first in our group of friends to have children. And then everyone else was still going out seven nights a week and networking and doing all of the fun stuff. And we weren't and I suffered from a little postpartum depression, especially the first six months after having my son because I felt very, very alone. And we shifted and we quickly my son was exactly six months, and we moved back to the east coast to be closer to my family. And that was a crazy decision that you know, they always say don't make those kind of rash decisions when you're, you know, when you're emotional are going through this kind of hard time. But it was the best thing for us because we had that support. And we were able to pick up our careers in New York City and but it was still the travel and we had now a two-hour commute from where we were living into Manhattan. And so we would get home and our son would be asleep. And I remember I missed his first birthday because I was shooting for MTV out in South by Southwest and it was really cool and really fun. But it wasn't cool and fun for me anymore because I wanted to be there for his birthday. And then I missed Halloween and it was just all these things. And then when I had my second or I'm sorry when I was pregnant with my second son, that's when it really started to hit me and I was like, Okay, I think I've checked the boxes on this dream career. And maybe there's something else that could be the next dream career for me, maybe I can use my skills. I didn't know how to do it, I had a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of like, who am I outside of this entertainment industry, because all of my friends, my husband, everyone was in it. But I knew I wanted to be a more present mom. So that's where the struggle really came in.
Kim Meninger
Hmm. And that have this thought that's not fully formulated in response to what you're saying that I'm going to just start talking and hope that it comes out gently, but so there's a lot of conversation and I guess, controversy around women, making career decisions based on, you know, having children, right. And they the idea that women in particular, still are the ones who make the career sacrifices in general. And so I want to make a distinction here between what you and I are talking about, and that because, obviously, when you have a child and you're you know, you're on this career track, and you have maybe hypothetical children, because you know, you will have them someday, it's very different from when you actually bring a child into the world. And now you're faced with this values conflict, right of like, I want to continue to invest in myself and in my career, I want to do my best work. And I also want to be a more present mom, like you're saying, I don't want to miss all the important moments. And we only get to do this for a limited amount of time before they're out of the house and on their own. And so, so I think what I want to make sure is clear here is that we're not talking about like, the sort of, we can't have it all kinds of pressures that so many women face, this is more about having a kind of conversation with yourself about which values you want to prioritize at a particular time in your life. And not everybody has the option to do that. I think that, you know, there is a certain amount of privilege that comes with being able to say, Alright, I'm gonna step out of my existing career and make a change. But I think that it's worth the exploration to see what's possible, because even if it's not something that's immediately possible, it is something that you may be able to set yourself up for over time.
Shannon Russell
Yes, I agree. 1,000%. And there's, I have quite a few friends who are still in my industry with kids, and they're making it work. So you're absolutely right, it's everyone's decision, to figure out what works best for their family and for them. And, and I agree, and I think when I first my whole thing is when I had my second son, I was home. And my, my show that I was producing at the time was canceled. So in television, it's very much a project, project kind of gig economy, you go from one thing to the next. And if you're very, if you're well known, and you have a group of people, you can network, and you can pick up the phone and say, Okay, I'm available, what's the next project you have for me. And I took that as almost a sign that my show was cancelled. And I was sitting there ready to pick up the phone. And I was like, You know what, I don't know if I want to. And I know that I can at any time because I'm used to just jumping from project to project. But something made me want to explore, like you said, what else is out there. And I can admit that I made some missteps. I don't want to make them, you know, mistakes or wrong decisions. But I definitely made some missteps. I immediately took a nine-to-five job, you know, that I was not excited about it didn't feel right. But it was close to home. And I felt like I needed to try it. And it was a very toxic office. It was nothing like I was used to it was not a good fit. But I tried it to see if that would fit for me and my family. I also enrolled kind of haphazardly into a master's program thinking, well, if I become a teacher that's really stable, and I have kids now and you know, I jumped to it, still paying it off years later, and never finished my degree because I ended up opening my business. But I'm saying this in the in the sense like agreeing with you that you can try the different things and maybe they won't fit but at least you can know you explored it and tried it and you can look for what will fit and eventually I decided to open a small franchise business that teaches children's STEM education. And that for me ended up being a big leap of faith but it fit it fit into the schedule I wanted. I could bring my kids with me to the classes. I was using kind of what I learned from that master's program with wanting to teach children but I was able to take all of my experience as a producer or an executive and entertainment and bring them into kind of producing a business and growing the business. So that's what worked for me. But honestly, I agree with you. It's like you want to explore and really have those conversations with yourself to say, what will work for me? What will work for me? Let me explore it, let me do some research. And you might be able to check it off and say, No, that's not a good fit, but at least you won't have any regrets. And you'll know.
Kim Meninger
Yes, and I'm glad you use the word regrets because that's how I think about it too, is I think we sometimes as humans fall into the all-or-nothing trap. And there's this feeling of if I'm not ready, right now to think about making a change for whatever reason that it's not even worth thinking about. Because then it's like, once I start that process, I'm committing to leaving something as opposed to looking at it through the lens of not nothing that you do from a research perspective obligates you to actually make a change, like getting the information doesn't mean you have to do anything different from what you're doing today. It just gives you more data on which to make your decisions. And to your point about regrets. I feel like, at least at the end of the day, when you're making your decisions about whether to stay or go, you know what you want to do next, you will know that you have come from a place of like, you know, sort of reason as opposed to fear or assumptions that you're making.
Shannon Russell
Yes, I, I always like to say don't run away from something run towards something, and you're going to run towards something once you've done that research and you talk to yourself. And yeah, absolutely, I completely agree. And Kim, you know, it made me think when we're 21-22, and we're leaving college with a degree or we're leaving school, we set out on that path. And we take that first job, and we're not thinking about all the options in front of us. But when we're a little bit older, and we've had that first job, you can look at it with a more broad view of like, being a little bit more choosy if you will about the options in front of you. Whereas when you're young, and you're starting out, you're going to take that first thing because you're so excited and you don't know any better. And now we can see what options will fit into our life the way it is at this moment. And, you know, be a little bit more choosy about which direction we go in, don't you think?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I completely agree with you. We just don't know what we don't know, when we're just starting out. And we learned so much about ourselves from the good experiences, the bad experiences, I feel like I've taught me a lot more about myself. But the other thing that I'm thinking about, as you're saying that too, is that a lot of what holds us back is this identity piece, right? Like, especially if you did go into a master's program or a Ph. D program, you've invested a lot of yourself in your education and in your career. And you feel like I am sort of letting go of all of this, that this investment that I have made and I you know, I'm selling out or whatever the case may be right to instead think of it like you said earlier, I achieved my goal that I, I did what I set out to do for that phase of my life, right? Like, let's just take being a lawyer, right? Because that's a big investment of money and time and you education. And you do it for a while. It's not wasted time, right? It's there's nothing shameful about saying, Okay, I accomplished my goal, I did what I wanted to do. And now it's time for me to explore what comes next in my life. And I think that's part of the problem is that we think we're letting ourselves down, or we're letting the people around us down as opposed to looking at it as like, mission accomplished right onto the next mission.
Shannon Russell
I agree, that's exactly how I like to look at it is like you and, and also you can still go back, you're still a lawyer, right? You're still whatever your first act was. And you can take all of that experience and that those accomplishments into your next, you know, path, whatever you're choosing to do. And I always say, sometimes I like to stop myself by say, Oh, I'm a former television producer, because no, I'm still a television producer, I could go back and do it tomorrow if I wanted. And I think we should all look at it like that, like whatever we set out after school to do and whatever we've accomplished, we're still that we can go and do it at any moment. We still have those skills and that experience, but now we're just trying something new, and adding that to kind of our, like, lifelong resume, if you will, right? Like, this is all the things that we can do. And how cool is that? Especially as a mom to show our children? You know, hey, I was this like, my kids don't remember when I was commuting and working in TV, nor do they get impressed by any of the stories. I tell them. They know me as a mom who owns a business and can be with them. And you know what, just a couple of years ago when I started my second business, they were like, wow, you can have two and I was like yep, you can have two Oh, and now I feel really proud to show them that you can do all of this. And just as a quick example, I have a 12, he just turned 12. And he, my firstborn, wants to be a veterinarian, he's super smart, wants to be a doctor. But he also was really into theater. And I keep telling him like, you can do both. You can be an actor, you can be a doctor, like, you don't have to choose just one path. And I think that's how this next generation is different than kind of how we were or how our parents and grandparents were. And I think that's pretty cool to just have all of the options instead of just being in one, one path till retirement.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. It's so funny because my, my son is, he just turned nine. And he's like, I either want to be an archaeologist, a mathematician, or I want to work at Popeye's. You got like, all these options, and I think I read somewhere. And I think it was Adam Grant. And I can't remember the whole sort of rationale for it. But it always stuck with me of like, not asking kids what they want to be when they grow up, because it really does kind of lock them in, in a way that takes away. They're just too young to know. And I know, you know, when, when you attach yourself to a certain identity or a certain goal, it's really hard to let go of that, like you said, to be able to say to your kids, like, you don't have to make a choice, right? You can be you can be a veterinarian who does, like theater on the side on the weekend, community theater, right? Like, why, why do we have to put ourselves into one box. And I love what you're saying too, about, you'll always be a TV producer. And so when we think about taking on these new roles, it's additive. It's not deleting anything.
Shannon Russell
Yeah. And as scary as it is, I think maybe that mindset shift can help women see it that way, right? Like you're not giving up all these accomplishments and everything that you spent all this time and money on. But guess what, now you get to put a little pin in that, explore something else. And just add on to your overall personality, you know, and your overall life experience. And it doesn't seem as scary when you think of it that way. I think.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And I think back to your earlier point, too, you can always go back. And I think that's important to know, psychologically, I think most of us won't. But it is really important to know that you have that safety net, if you need it.
Shannon Russell
Yes, yes. And there was I had a woman, she was actually a college friend of mine who came on my podcast, maybe a year and a half ago. And she talked about her career transition. And she went from accounting to recruiting. And then she wrote me a few months later and said, I think I need to come back on your podcast because I went back to accounting. And it just like popped in my head, something that you said, I'm like, I like you can go back and not skip a beat. And you know what she and I should have her on my show to talk about that reverse again. But how cool is it that she knew she was, what's the word, enough, like self-aware enough to know that she tried something, it wasn't the fit that she thought it was? And she went back, and now she'll never have that regret. And she knew that she truly was supposed to be in that original accounting career. And that's really cool to know, too and just kind of a different way of thinking, you know.
Kim Meninger
I think they, yeah, I think that's a great example. Because you're right, sometimes we get very laser-focused on what we're doing. And they, you know, as they say, the grass is always greener. And so we just don't, we don't know what's out there and being able to go out and experience something new. Maybe just what you need to reinforce that you're in the right place in the first place.
Shannon Russell
Yes, I like that. I got chills. Yep.
Kim Meninger
So how do you see I'm just thinking about it from the perspective of people listening who might be thinking, Oh, she's speaking to me, right? How do you think about step one? Like, what would you encourage people to do, who maybe feel like there's got to be something more and they want to try out something new, but they don't even know where to begin?
Shannon Russell
I always say learn before you leap. And that is something that I learned from not doing that. When I left television, I like I said, I joined a master's program, I took this job, I didn't think I didn't take the moment to really turn inwards and ask myself what I wanted and to really explore all of my experience and what that would transfer to. So I say to have that conversation with yourself. Learn about what you're thinking about moving into before you make that leap. And you can do that easily by just researching, you know kind of research if your interests did in, you know, opening up your own small business? Well, let's talk to some other people who have done that maybe other people in the same field. And if you're worried about speaking to people who are in your town where you're going to open this business, there's so many people you can meet online through Facebook groups are LinkedIn. So I always say, don't be afraid to especially in this day and age message anyone and ask for a quick five-minute Zoom, or a quick phone call or an email to say, how do you like doing what you're doing? I'm thinking about moving into that industry, I would love to just learn a little bit more about it. And people are happy to share their experience. And that just helps you either. Learn more like, Okay, this is something that I truly think I'd be interested in, or on the flip side makes you go oh, yeah, after I learned a little bit more, I'm going to cross that off my list. That is not anything that I like to do. Because how many times do we think, Oh, it sounds like it'd be really cool to run a nail salon. And then you actually look into it, you're like, oh, gosh, there's a lot of parts of that that are more than just doing nails, just as an example. So I think really that learning piece that research. And then that research, I think Kim gives you more of a confidence to because the more you learn about that role, you can be more confident, especially when you start telling your partner or friends and family who might be like, wait, hold up, what are you thinking about doing? You can be confident and say, Well, I researched it, this is what I learned. This is why I want to move forward with this.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I would suggest I love that. And I think about that too, because I think I love how you said learn before you leave because every change is a leap of faith to some extent, because you cannot know entirely how it's gonna feel until you get there. But I think sometimes without the learning piece that you're talking about, the LEAP is gigantic, right. But if you do all the research, and you talk to people, and you fill in the gaps, like the LEAP you have to take is much, much smaller. And to your point around feeling more confident. You just have so much more information to make the decision on and so I think when what I often advise people to think about is, where are you telling yourself No, right? Like, oh, no, I could never do that I won't make enough money, or I'm too old to do this, or whatever the case like where are you telling yourself No. And then look at it as an assumption that you can convert into a question, right? So it's like, unless you have done your due diligence, and concluded based on data, that what you're telling yourself know about is indeed true. It's an opportunity to shift it into a question that you can then go out and research right, like, well, if I have certain income that I need to be able to replace, how would I go about doing it? Is it, is it an option for as opposed to just assuming like, Nope, it's never gonna happen.
Shannon Russell
Right? I like that a lot. And that's the learning piece, right? Because until you truly learn that you don't know. So ask yourself the questions and then, you know, figure it out. And, and there's different things you can do to like, just use my pivot as an example, when I decided to buy into this franchise business. I did my due diligence, I had phone calls with so many other owners of this particular franchise, and I became friends with them. And I learned a lot before I left and this way, I knew like, okay, I can do this. I knew how much they were making. I knew how long it took for them to make that because when you open a business, it takes quite some time. And I prepared myself, I, I often tell people, and I'm sure you do, too, that if you are working and you have a paycheck, that's the best time to start figuring out your next act and, and save that money while you're doing your research. And so I was working in that toxic nine-to-five job while I was researching this business I wanted to open. So I was kind of saving that money planning ahead and putting those pieces together. And then it made it a little less scary. So yeah, I think just asking yourself the questions, finding that research. And, and again, it comes back to that confidence piece of saying like, you know what, I think I can do this and it's worth a try.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you brought up doing it in stages or increments right of staying in the job that you knew wasn't the right one because he gave you the financial security while you figured out the bridge to the next one. Because I do think that that's a big part of it, right? It's like, oh, no, I just, I just can't I don't have the means to do that. Well, if you put a plan together, and nowadays I mean that we, we have this very interesting world that we're operating within where people have side hustles and people you know or do doing all kinds of things beyond their, their traditional full-time job. And so it becomes a really not to say that we have unlimited time, but it becomes a good opportunity to really test drive. Some of the things to beyond researching is to just see like, hey, if I want to do this, what would it feel like to do this, you know, for nights and weekends for a little bit?
Shannon Russell
Exactly. And you can volunteer, you can intern even at our age. So I think there's like, if you can find just a little bit of time each week, whether it's research or, you know, the side hustle aspect like that just, again, helps you decide, like yes or no, is this something I want to pursue?
Kim Meninger
Absolutely, yeah. And so are there any other like? This is a loaded question because I'm sure we could be here all day talking about this. But like, Are there any other sort of roadblocks that you help people with, like, anything that we haven't talked about that you think has the potential to get in the way when people are thinking about this?
Shannon Russell
I think it's a lot of like, kind of the risk mitigation of, you know, what your partner thinks, and what your friends and family think. And it goes back to that identity piece that you mentioned earlier to have. You know, I often get clients who are saying, Well, who am I, if I'm not a teacher, who am I, if I'm not this, and you just have to look at it again, of you know, you can still be that, you're now taking all of those experiences and those skills to move towards something else. And again, just to, I think when you do that research, and you are more confident in what it is that you want to move towards, you can almost craft your elevator pitch to your partner or to your friends and family. And I remember when I was leaving TV, I was the first of all of my TV friends to find something else. And it I've got a lot of questions. I'm like, Why? Why are you doing this? Are you sure? Like it was almost like an intervention. And now, you know, many years later, they're asking me, I'm having people that I worked with 20 years ago that are messaging me on LinkedIn and saying, you know, I know you help people with transitions now, can we talk because it's time for me to now find my next thing. So I think it's just taking everyone's caring opinions, advice, positive or negative into account and say, Okay, well, thank you. But I'm going to try this. And I'd really love to have your support. And this is why I think I'd be great at it. And I'm just going to try it and see if I can make this pivot. And, but I think that's the big problem is a lot of times we do put our feelings and our priorities to the side because of what our partners, our family and friends think. And, you know, it's just trying to get past that and realize that it really is about what you think because we get this one life to live. And you don't want to have those regrets of not trying it. And then many years from now to look back and say, Well, I didn't try it because I was afraid of what my neighbors or my college friends would think. And really, in this day and age that we live in to, like you said, there's so many people doing side hustles and having multiple jobs, I think people will, will look at it as this is really cool that you're trying this, that you are a teacher, and you're also really into painting. And now you're going to try to make something out of the painting as well. Like, that's admirable, I think. So it's just that mindset shift a little bit of going, you know, what, this is what I need for my life, and everyone will get on board and, and support me in time.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because our loved ones are great for a lot of reasons. But they're not really great. When we're going through a change. They have their own attachment to the outcome, or they're projecting their own fears and insecurities onto you because they're imagining, I could never do that. What would that mean that it becomes this fear-based type of support, right? And so that is a great reason to work with someone like you around this where you can be objective, you're not attached to the outcome, you're trying to support them in a more sort of methodical way obviously, what our friends and family think, is always going to be important to us. But it's also this is like a really silly example that popped into my mind, but like we did not share the names that we chose for our children before we, we had our babies, right because everyone has an opinion. Everyone's gonna start saying, Oh, no, I knew somebody named that before and he was a jerk right and but as soon as you introduce your baby into the world with a name they're not going to be like I never would have chosen that name right so I think about that with like, going through a change to everyone has an opinion. Everyone's gonna be like telling you all kinds of reasons why you shouldn't do it what you should do it. But not that you don't share it with people. But just know that like, once you get to the other side, everyone's gonna get on board because they love you, and they want you to be happy.
Shannon Russell
So right. And I have some other business owner, friends of mine, that I talked to more than my best friends because my best friends are not business owners, and so they don't understand. And so you, you kind of form your group that safe that you can go to and tell them your crazy ideas or your you know, your hopes of what you want to accomplish. And I think those people rally around you in a different way than your loved ones because they are going through it with you. And I'm sure you found this too. It's, it's just nice. Anyone can find that group within their industry to be their friends and support them more than the other people who are, are super close to them. Yes, exactly.
Kim Meninger
I think that's a really good point. And I think I would just say that if you are talking to people around you about this, just always ask yourself like, what's their motivation?
Shannon Russell
I agree. I think I think you're right, though it is a lot of oftentimes the not jealousy factor. But the like, Oh, I could never do this. I don't know, are you sure? Or they can poopoo it and in a way of like, oh, isn't that cute that you're trying this? And you're like, No, but this is like I'm in the process. Right now I'm writing a book. And I have not told many people because I know some of my friends will be like, Oh, you're so cute. You're trying something new? And it's like, well, I don't want you to think it's cute, like I want. So once it's finished, I'll give it to my friends. But otherwise, I'm only my author friends who have been through it because they understand. So yeah, hold your dreams and what you're working towards, towards a little close to the best. until you're ready.
Kim Meninger
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, you brought up confidence a few times, which I think is such an important part of this conversation too. And when we are in the transition, it's a vulnerable place to be right, of course, we're gonna have doubts, of course, we're gonna have anxiety around it, we can't see the future. But we build our confidence with each step that we take. And once you make a decision, it not it doesn't even have to be the decision, right. But the decision to have a conversation with somebody that decision to do the research to try volunteering position, you build those confidence muscles along the way. And so I think that's important, too, is, you know, you're, when you're interacting with other people and asking for their advice, it's an even more vulnerable position to be in because you're really trying to incorporate everybody else's ideas, looking for external validation. But, you know, really focusing on the action you can take is going to build your own confidence.
Shannon Russell
Absolutely. And that's the most important thing I think that you should be worried about is, is your confidence level to move forward.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And then as we said earlier, let's imagine because I'm an anxious person, I always look at the worst-case scenario, the worst-case scenario is it doesn't work, and you go back to where you are.
Shannon Russell
And that's comforting, right? That's comforting to know that that's there. And I think as long as you don't burn a bridge, and wherever you're leaving, and you I mean, you can be honest and say hey, I really want to explore this, this is something that I have been thinking about, I'm going to explore this, I will keep you posted on how it go. And you just don't burn that bridge. So you can always go back. And even if you don't go back to that particular company, you can still go back to something else in that industry. You're still that person with those same skills, they don't go away.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, this is such an important reminder. Thank you so much, Shannon, this has been such a fantastic conversation. I hope that it's inspiring to others who may be thinking about what's there and the second act, right? Where can people find you if they want to learn more about you and your work?
Shannon Russell
Sure everything is at secondxsuccess.co. I have free resources. I actually have a quiz that's on there right now. And then my work my podcasts, all of that is all at secondxsuccess.co.
Kim Meninger
Perfect. Well, I will put those links in the show notes as well. And thank you again for being here. This has been such a great conversation.
Shannon Russell
Thank you, Kim. This is so much fun. We could have talked all day.
Kim Meninger
We certainly could have.