In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about thriving. When it comes to work, are you thriving or are you just surviving? This can be a difficult question to consider because, if you are just surviving, that might be hard to admit to yourself. But, if that is the case, it doesn’t have to be that way. My guest this week is Carly Pepin, a speaker and consultant who is focused on human behavior. Here we talk about the importance of taking more risks and challenging ourselves because it’s through those challenges that we learn what we’re capable of. We also talk about leveraging your team for support, seeking feedback and having honest conversations with your manager.
About My Guest Carly is an International Speaker and Consultant with a specialized focus on human behavior. She shares the message that regardless of one's background, occupation, or origin, every individual encounters personal and professional challenges stemming from their own perceived flaws. Carly emphasizes that the key to living a fulfilling life lies in how you utilize and transform these stories. Having devoted her life to mastering the intricacies of human behavior, Carly empowers others to do the same. Through her expertise, she guides individuals in looking beyond the surface and delving into the core essence of their being. By uncovering and addressing the deeper issues that hinder personal growth, Carly enables her clients to design their lives with purpose rather than succumbing to a life dictated by duty.
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Connect with Carly:
Facebook: http://facebook.com/carly.pepin.consulting Instagram: http://instagram.com/carlympepin/ LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/carlypepin/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@carlypepin YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@carlypepin
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Carly. It's so nice to see you, or at least I can see you. Others can hear you. But I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Carly Pepin
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Kim. And, yeah, so my name is Carly Pepin. I'm a human behavior specialist, and I'm also a business coach as well, personal development coach, and I've been in the industry for it's almost 13 years now. It's coming up on which is really inspiring and, yeah, mainly just focusing on helping people just thrive in the work environments that they're either working in, or if they're wanting to be a leader, they're a leader already, helping them to continue and expand that so they can feel inspired by what they do daily. I think it's one of the gifts we have as humans that work can actually be something that helps us thrive, not something that we just do to survive.
Kim Meninger
I really love that concept, because I think too many people are in survival mode instead of thrive mode. And I wonder, do you, you mentioned 13 years? Congratulations. What were you doing for that and what, what motivated you to shift into this direction?
Carly Pepin
Yeah, I actually really loved the careers that I was in beforehand. I think that that's one thing that I got to see growing up, when I had a lot of family members who were entrepreneurs, small business owners, and I got to see people who liked their jobs, right? So to me, if you didn't like your job, you just shouldn't work there. That was just like, naturally what I grew up in, I was like, Oh, you don't like your job, you just don't work there. You find something else. So that was a real gift that got ingrained at a really young age. So I really loved what I did. I was working in the fashion industry. One of my favorite positions. I was working with a photographer. It was really fun. I got to do creative direction. I got to help manage the studio, and when I say I really enjoyed myself, it wasn't an easy job by any means. It was pretty chaotic. I mean, anyone who's ever tapped into the fashion industry knows there's a lot of personalities to connect with, so there's a lot of management of that. There's a lot of unrealistic time frames. So everything was due last week, last month, and we're getting booked to get it done next week, even though they needed it last month. And it's like, okay, so there's a lot of unrealistic deadlines, a lot of chaos right there. Just it is what it is. But what I loved about it was I loved what I was doing, and I love the challenge. And so when I say thriving instead of surviving, I don't mean that you're gonna make your life easier. I mean, like, what is the thing that is the hardest to do for you that you still enjoy doing? And how do you incorporate that into a career? You know? Because if you can find a career that gives you that opportunity to do the thing that you can do all day long, even if it's hard, do you wake up and think, I can't go to work today? It's too hard. It's too exhausting. I'm burnt out. No, you wake up and you're like, man, it's a tough day, but you know what? I could do this. I got this. I could, I could figure this out. You know, some days you might come home and you might have, like, a little cry or something, but you're still like, it was really hard, but I'm gonna figure this out. I could do this, and that's what I mean by thriving. Because as human beings, we love overcoming challenges. We love growing. And in those moments of that part of the journey where it's even hard, you get to experience what you're capable of. And that's a huge personal development component, that's a huge growth component, that's a huge dynamic of building your confidence, your self-esteem. So, yeah, if you're looking to move up in your career, find and pursue challenges in the business that you're working for that inspire you because that'll build up your confidence to move up and move forward.
Kim Meninger
That is such an important point because I often think about the fact that high, high achievers are such interesting creatures. And you know, I would count ourselves among that, the, there is this very strong desire to achieve, to, to overcome challenges, like you're saying, face challenges, grow at the same time, though, there can be this risk avoidance because there's this fear of failure, or this, you know, sort of fear of not living up to your own expectations that can keep us playing really small. And if we keep playing small because we're afraid of doing it wrong, then we don't experience the reward that you're describing, of overcoming that challenge and reminding ourselves I can do it, as you said earlier, right? It's like this. The, the, the more you avoid a challenge, the scarier it becomes.
Carly Pepin
Yeah, and this is really cool too, because it especially in a business. You guys like, we're not alone. That's it. You're not alone. And so utilize your team, like when you're working in a business, utilize your team. Utilize people outside of your team. Talk to your supervisor, manager. If you're the manager, talk to the owner. It's like, who can you talk to, to get assistance and help? It accompanies some of the companies I work with, like the leadership team. If they're not going to get assistance from the CEO, that's okay. The CEO is actually willing to invest. Invest in coaching for that individual, they're willing to invest in education. And so if you have a fear of failure, you're naturally going to also part of that fear comes from the wisdom of seeing some of the challenges that you're about to face, right? So instead of being like, this is a fear of failure like it's these are all the ways I can fail. This is what I can tackle. This is what I can't tackle. And if you broke down that fear of failure in the company you're working for, you could look and be like so and so can help me with this. I don't know how to do x, y, z, so and so can help me with this? So and so can help me with this. I might be able to learn how to do this. And there are companies where people will pay for your education to help you to learn how to do that. And remember too, it's like the more that you're doing things like that, you're starting to take calculated risks. Which owner is going to prefer, as well. And so if you do fail, at least you've taken a calculated risk. But at the same time, now you have team members working alongside you, and you, you have a less probability of it failing as an individual because you have all these people now holding you accountable. A great company will also have like scorecards and ways to help hold you accountable and make sure that you know people are giving you constructive, critical feedback and also positive reinforcement, since we don't always have that. If you don't, it's like, how do you create that dynamic for yourself? Like, I hope you have it, but I know that most companies don't. So yeah, which I'm working on. I'm working on it.
Kim Meninger
Well, really points there. And I think the working with your team is so important because I do think that sometimes part of being a high achiever feels like we need to do everything ourselves, or it's cheating, or, you know, we maybe feel like we can do it better than other people can, and so we take on a lot of the work ourselves, and that obviously, is a recipe for burnout and all kinds of things. But when you are able to say, this is outside my scope of expertise, or these, these are not, you know, I don't have the strengths or that, or the skills to do this, I'm going to invite someone on my team to do it. You build your confidence because you don't have to be the one who's doing it right. I always joke that I used to compare myself to the technical people on my team because I lived in a I was a nontechnical person in a very technical world, and I spent so many years feeling like I should know what they know. And then finally I reached a point where I was like, Oh, thank God, they know that so I don't have to.
Carly Pepin
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And this is the cool thing too. It's like, it also depends on the size company you're working for, right? Like, I definitely worked with a lot when I was an employee. I was at a lot of smaller companies. I had some companies that were a lot larger. At the larger companies, it was like, like, I remember I was doing some marketing stuff and PR stuff, right? And it was really big company, right? At that company, when I needed to get something shipped, shipped, I walked over to I went over to Louis, and I'd be like, Louis, what's up? Like, is it possible to get the ship today, tomorrow? Whatever's fine, right? And Lewis would be like, yeah, and he had a system for me, right? And so this is cool, because it's like, I do not expect to do everything when you're at a smaller company. It's a little different when I was at smaller companies, and it was like, I needed to ship stuff out and catalogs and stuff like that. I was the shipper. That was it. I was like, I was the shipper. I had to learn how to, like, do everything online. It is what it is. So it also depends on the size company that you're working for, and if you're working for a smaller company, you do become almost an entrepreneur within that company, because you're forced to step into so many roles. When you're working at a larger company, you're able to have a bit more of a specialized focus, and this is also knowing about yourself, right? Like I loved stepping into the other roles. That was fun for me, which makes sense why I'm an entrepreneur now. So for me, I really thrive in environments where someone says, figure this out and there's no one else to do it. Like, I sometimes I'm really stressed out, but I'm like, okay, I can figure this out. Like I can do this and I'll figure it out. But I love that environment. If you don't love that environment, you are going to do better at a company where they want you to focus on your one specialty, kind of that one thing, and really focus on that dynamic and anything else that you're not interested in learning like you can delegate that out to someone else. If you wanted to expand in your current position, you could also still learn about that too. Again, this is depending on the company. But I find that most companies who value like the growth of their, their company to a certain degree, and the owner doesn't have too hot of a head on his shoulders or hers, they will be interested in if you said, Hey, like, I love doing, you know, marketing, for example. And I saw this like. Course, online at this school, and I was wondering if that would be something I could take because I think in the next quarter, this would be really helpful for me to understand XYZ because we're having a problem here. Most companies will do that. So whether you have a specialty or whether they're asking you to take something new on, most companies, again, will do it if you actually show them how it's going to serve them because they, they appreciate you wanting to move forward. They appreciate you kind of looking ahead and saying, like, this is the problem that I'm seeing, and this is how I'm thinking maybe we tackle it, but also, if someone has a better idea. Again, hopefully, and most companies have this, but hopefully, you guys are having meetings as well like that are thorough and concise, and it doesn't always happen again. I'm working on it me and my other colleagues out there, because I know that sometimes those meetings, I just remember being in them when I actually fell asleep and sitting up. I just, I remember the moment, and then the owner asked me, he's like, What do you think Carly? And I was like, I think Janet made some excellent points. And I agree with her, late I got away with it. I remember getting in the car later and laughing with my, my superior at the time would be like, I blacked out. I was like, Am I cool? I totally blacked out. So this is also, if the meetings are that boring, like bring it to the attention of your superior. I actually did that eventually, and we weren't getting anything produced in those meetings, and I brought it to the attention of the CEO that was in charge of my division. And so I would actually at that point have permission to go in, get the structured components that were actionable to move forward, and I would be in meetings for 15 minutes, and then they would just do their dilly-daddly-chit-chat crap. That was crazy, but that was also me speaking up, right? And saying, like, I don't think it's productive to me to have me in the whole meeting. Can I just be in the parts where, like, we talk about what actions I meant to take, and then I go do that because I just feel like I'm wasting time, and I'm literally, I'm literally falling asleep girl, and she's like, Yeah, you're fine. You don't need to be in the whole meeting. So we really restructured it in that way. But it's only by speaking up and I was truthful and honest with her, like I fell asleep. Like, this isn't where I'm supposed to be. So it's, it's not being scared as well to, like, share with these individuals what's actually happening because someone falling asleep in a meeting is indicative that there's something awry in those meetings, you know, like, it's not just me, it's like there's something awry, and that could be refined and fine-tuned to a greater degree. And the system can be fine-tuned to a greater degree. So you also want to bring these problems forward and have a way where you guys can, like, help work together as a common team, as a common goal. Again, I'm kind of explaining this in a little bit at a different dynamic, in the sense that I'm going to assume that the company doesn't have everything together. You know, if the company has everything together, then you probably don't even have to listen to this because there's, like, a career structure path on how to move forward. Yeah, it's just there.
Kim Meninger
Very good point. But I love the way you're talking about the problem-solving text of this too, right? Because if you're coming from a place of I want to add even more value than I'm adding right now, and I see an opportunity here for us to do something even better that's less likely to trigger defensiveness, or, you know, to make it uncomfortable for you to have that conversation. What you're basically saying is, I want to give you the gift of my talent, right? I want to give you even more of it. And especially, like you said, if you're in an environment where people are just trying to figure things out, the beauty of that is there usually aren't very clear expectations, because nobody knows what they don't know, and so you're not trying to do something that you know. Somebody has a very clear definition of success around it's more of like you have more freedom to experiment and try things out.
Carly Pepin
Absolutely, yeah, and again, asking questions. It's like, this is where you're humble enough when you get stuck to ask questions. And I would say, that's one of the gifts of I didn't. No one ever told me I couldn't, so I just didn't think I couldn't, right? Like no one ever said, like, you can't do that. Like I just did it, and that just was what it was. So I didn't have this perception that I couldn't talk to the owner Never, not once. It just was never in my head. And I realized that you could, and so I would go and I would bring things to the table, and sometimes I would just be rejected, you guys, like, sometimes I would get rejected trouble, like, which was just kind of a laugh, um, and it wasn't, it wasn't a good thing or a bad thing. When you make it like, it's not a good thing or a bad thing, right? It's just a thing, right? There are times when I've gotten in so much trouble that I'm humbly apologizing, because I'm like, I understand what you're saying. I'm really sorry. I agree with you. I basically will get my crap together like, ASAP, right? Like, I've had those moments in my career. And then there's also moments where, you know, like, I'm. I'm a bit aggressive and fighting back on things, and a bit conflictual, because I'm so strongly seeing like something that someone else isn't seeing, but giving yourself permission to kind of engage in something in a different way, right? Because if here's the thing, like, I work with a lot of CEOs and stuff, and they love when you get work done. They want you to get the job done. They want you to do it well. But what they also appreciate is honesty. Like, if they have someone kissing up to them on a regular basis, you know they're not going to see their blind spots. And we all have blind spots, right? So if someone's not telling me, like, this is your blind spot, Carly, like, this is where you could improve. Or like, occasionally, like, and I remember doing this with one guy one time too, is he just was trying to get us to do something in the office, and it was my first week there, and he started screaming at everyone, and I pulled him aside and I said, you don't need to do that. And I said, I don't think you realize, like, we're doing the work, we're going to get it done. And you yelling is actually, like, stressing us all out. And I and I just was straight up, I was straight up. I was like, I don't really even want to work in that environment. And he was like, I'm so sorry. And after that, he just changed the dynamic, right? And so it wasn't even like, it wasn't even like I had to do anything too crazy. I just pulled him aside again. I pulled him aside because I was like, I don't want to do this in front of other people because he is the superior. So I wanted to respect that and keep his authority. So I keep his authority. You pull him aside, you share that information. And it was amazing to see, like, the transformation within the office, right? He still did all his fun, crazy stuff, but he wasn't yelling at us anymore because he didn't need to. And I was like, you're good. I was like, Yeah, you're good. So it is. It's having the courage as well to be able to have these quality conversations with people because you'll find that it's not only helpful for them, but it's highly helpful for you, like the developmental aspect. And remember, everyone's like, everyone's just a person. And I think the thing that we get really scared about, too, is we get scared about losing our jobs. You know, we get scared about, like, losing our jobs and losing that security and, gosh, I've been through so many, like, different dynamics. What I've learned is that if you're providing value at a company beyond what they expect, it's hard to lose your job. That's what I learned, because I, when I tell you I've done some crazy stuff in an office workplace. I, like, can't even get into it, like, it's hysterical, where you're like, you did what, and you didn't get fired out. I was providing so much value beyond what I was meant to do, and I was so engaged and interested and wanting to learn that it was, this is the downside for the bosses, by the way, it was hard to fire me. They didn't want to fire me because it was like a value to have me, and so they dealt with some of this other stuff. And that's something that I realized as well, is like, if you really want to keep this job and you love it, put your heart and soul into it, and it'll pay it pays back, by the way, like, I know I'm an entrepreneur now, and that was a choice that I made. But when I was working in those companies, the perks that I got, like, as a result of putting my heart and soul into it, it was different. I was getting perks that were I was totally getting like, these perks. Like, you look at it and you're like, I can't believe they let me do this while other people couldn't. I used to, I used to, I used to listen to music all the time and have iTunes on my computer, and everyone else's computer was blocked, right? No one else could do anything. They couldn't go on Facebook anything. But I was allowed to because I worked so hard, I worked overtime. And I was like, I remember going to the CEO and just being like, I don't want that taken off. I was like, I have to be here until seven o'clock pm. I just want to be able to go on Facebook every now and then, and she's like, whatever, fine, because I was working so hard. So it's insane what companies will do and provide for you if they see that you're putting your heart and soul into something. And this is also, again, making sure you have a job you want to put your heart and soul into, because if you don't, maybe this is the best job that you would get fired from, maybe that's the best job for you to leave and find something that you want to put your heart and soul into because that's how you're going to move forward to the greatest degree.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, no, the all great points because I think what you're describing about in how it's really hard to get fired is so true. Because I guarantee everyone listening has a less than mediocre colleague who you're wondering, Why is this person still here? Right? So it's hard to fire even core performers, let alone high performers, [let alone high performers. Yeah, so true.] I think we have a lot more freedom than we think we do. And the way that I think about it, when you have these conversations, of course, you have to know your own situation well enough, and you need to know the players well enough. I'm not, I'm not guessing that anybody just go broke, right? There's things to think about however there, when you come forward to your manager with the kind of conversation that you're describing, the way I look at it is you're going to get one of two things, you're either going to get support or you're going to get data right? Because they come back and they say, No, that's data on which to make decisions about whether this is a place that you want to stay in the short term and the long term, right? If you feel like you are not getting the support you need in order to do your best work, and you're suffering in silence, then you're just sort of perpetuating a bad situation, but you don't know yet whether your manager would be able or willing to offer that to you. So when you have the conversation, at least, now you know, and now you can use that as a, as a decision factor.
Carly Pepin
And if the manager is not giving you extra information, it's also not being afraid to ask. Afraid to Ask, like, the why. Because the Why might be, like, like, a solid manager might say, like, I like your idea, but we don't have enough information, and so this is what I would require to move forward, right? Like, that's probably, that's the best-case scenario, because someone who just says yes, without enough data, unless you were really prepared, which we're all human, so I expect some constructive criticism on a regular basis. I don't expect to ever just be like, no criticism. Carly. I'm like, I expect it. Like, bring it. So since we're all human, there's going to be things that we miss, and so a great manager will be like, I love this. Here's what you missed, right? So it's like, the constructive feedback, and let's dive in and see if this is a possibility, or if it is a possibility, like, there's more steps to go, all that fun stuff. If it's a solid No, and you don't get the answer, why, right? Like, it's kind of important to understand why. And you can just ask that question is, like, Okay, well, why would that be? So I can understand the goals of the company more the vision of the company, right? And then if they don't have an answer, I mean, that's a little bit of a red flag, right? If they can't answer it, that's definitely a red flag. If they have an understanding of why they said No, they'll give you those reasoning and will actually give you more insight. And you will probably realize in that moment, like, Man, I didn't even know this, but I was going in the wrong direction. And by the way, that's amazing feedback for a manager, because if someone comes forward with an idea that's totally offbeat, that means that that company, that manager, that leadership team, the owner, is not sharing the vision with the employees. They don't know the vision. They don't know the values, and so they're coming up with ideas that are completely off track. And so when I say it's important for you to come forward, it's important not just for you, but for the company as well. You know, that's feedback, yeah, and you'll, you'll see in a company, if they can't handle that feedback, and they whatever, freak out or have issues or can't even answer your question, where they're like, I don't know. I just don't want to do it like you probably. I mean, I would want to leave that company. I don't know about you, but I, sounds like this group would want to leave that company. I actually have a client right now. She's going to leave a company like that. She's trying really hard, and she's really working, and she's trying to, like, get the training, where she would love to and but they're just, they're giving her a lot of roadblocks in the sense that she really, really, really wants to move forward and she's unable to, and if they don't start to put together some sort of system or structure, then she'll be gone, guaranteed she'll be gone, and she'll find a company that allows her to thrive and move up, you know? And it wouldn't be that hard for her, but it's interesting because you see someone who's she's definitely like part of a leadership team. She's definitely like a high-quality employee to have. And I'm watching this company, and I'm like, You're gonna lose her. I'm like, You're gonna lose her. You hired her for a reason, and you're not letting her do her job. I was like, you're about to lose her? Yeah.
Kim Meninger
Maybe they deserve to. And I think that's, I think, making sure that you're doing your due diligence before you make that decision. Because sometimes we leave without actually knowing, just like we're talking about, if you make an assumption about what's possible or what is impossible, and then you leave to go to another company. You'll never know what might have been. And so if you've already decided I'm not going to stay here much longer because I'm not happy with X, you might as well have the conversation, because you have nothing to lose at that point.
Carly Pepin
Yeah, you're already leaving, and you never know on the back end what they're doing, because it's the same like when I'm working with a company on the back end, this stuff takes some time to implement. So if there's a lot of things that you love about a company, but you don't love the culture, right? And I might be working on the back end with the leadership team for the culture, it might take them, like, six months to a year to really get in the groove of things, right, but at that point, we're going to create a company that you're going to love, and if you like all these other aspects of the company, you might not want to leave. And so it's true. It's like, ask the questions, check-in, because then if you find out that nothing's going to happen, it's going to be this way forever, and you really hate working there, you have full permission to leave. You know, you’re a human being, it’s your divine right. You can do what you want. But if you find out that they're actually working to put things in place, you could say, like, Oh, cool. Like, I might want to stay, like, a little bit longer. You know, it's funny. One of my clients, too, he was having a really hard time on a job site. He's in construction, and he loves finishing work, and he's having a really hard time on this one particular job site. Everyone's having a hard time, and everyone's like, super cranky. And he finally flipped out and told his boss, and his boss said, she goes, I'm very sorry. She said we took on this client, it is outside of our normal scope. She's like, we will never do it again. We're going to finish this job, and we will never take on a job like this again, I promise you. And then he also got a raise because they were already considering a raise. They knew how unhappy he was, and they're like, just keep coming to us. We'll do the best we can to get to the other side of this one. But just know you'll never have to take on a job like this again. We apologize. This was our mistake. And it's like, you know, as opposed to him being like, he, he was ready to quit, by the way, yeah, he was so ready to quit, but then he understood, like, this is temporary. We're gonna get to the other side. They appreciate him enough. They already had planned on giving him a raise but they gave him a raise a little bit sooner than they had planned. They're like, we were gonna give this to you anyways at this time, but let's just do it now. So that actually locked in an employee that they knew was really valuable, and he knows that this is the last time he'll ever have to do a job like this, and then he gets to go back to doing what he loves. But if he didn't have the conversation, he would have just quit. He wouldn't have gotten the price, like the raise increase, right? And then he also wouldn't have gotten this understanding that you don't have to do this anymore, you know? And so it's, it's kind of cool, like, if you just have that conversation, the tough conversation, sometimes it'll turn out in a way that you don't expect, or sometimes it gives you permission to leave, time to go.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, exactly. And I think one of the things that I often talk about is your manager can't solve a problem they don't know exists, right? And so if you're just smiling and doing the work, and they're giving you more of it, or they're shifting it in a direction that doesn't make you happy, and you just keep doing it, they have no reason to believe that there's anything wrong, and I often say this too, of if you're not asking for help, if you're not educating them on what's required In order to do a good job, given the resources that you have, they're not expending their political capital to go ask for more budget, to go ask for more headcount because they think everything is fine. And so, like you had said earlier, there are lots of blind spots. They don't know what they don't know. It's kind of our obligation to provide that information.
Carly Pepin
Yeah, it's really helpful. And like, I mean, I tell people this all the time, most companies are not really running in an organized, structured way. That's the truth, you know. Like, I love doing what I do, and I love helping companies, like, get this structure, this organization, but most of them are not doing it. So when I talk to people, I talk to them with the expectation that it's not happening, you know, and so like in a really well-run company, all these things is, is technically trackable, but the managers aren't tracking them, the leads not tracking them, the CEO is not tracking them. And all these things can be tracked, like in daily meetings and KPIs for like you or your certain team, or you're into as an individual, like you have a certain goal and you have a certain KPI, and if you're not hitting it, like a great company every day, you have about 15 minutes. I love these, like mini-meetings, these little daily huddles. You have about 15 minutes to talk and your team, your small team, to figure out if you're hitting it. Great. We keep going forward if you're not hitting it, and you're the person why? What's your roadblock? Where's the challenge, and where can we help? And then it just immediately gets solved. See, most companies are not doing that, so if they're not doing that, it is part of now your responsibility to take that action, and when you bring it to their attention, if you want something like that, a company who starts to see the problems and starts to see those gaps, will be more inclined to say, hey, we've got to get organized and structured, right? Hey, let's hire someone like a Carly, or someone else like that to come in and help us make sure that we're not having like our employees stressed out to this degree and we're not missing all these things. Let's bring someone in to make sure we get it organized. Let's figure out how to do this, they'll even ask you for your advice and your input, which is fun, you know, then you kind of become a greater part of the company. And if they don't like it, like, I don't know, I'd probably leave the company. I just leave. Like, if you ask for help and assistance, and they're just like, I can't deal with you, or whatever. Like, that's probably not like the most inspiring company to work for anyways, and you might just want to start looking like straight up,
Kim Meninger
Yeah, absolutely.
Carly Pepin
Well, life is short.
Kim Meninger
It's just completely reinforced surviving, right? Because I just don't think it's ever going to be perceived as. Is thriving if you're suffering in silence, if you don't feel empowered, if you feel like you're not being heard, you don't have any influence, right? So it's really important to separate the ways in which we are doing that by not taking action, versus the company is responding in a way that stifles, yeah, right, and you really can't tell, unless you take those risks.
Carly Pepin
Yeah. Um, this is funny, because I had a I have, like, I just, you know, being the fashion industry, people just yell. So I remember one of my bosses, he definitely yelled. But I was also thriving there because I was growing, I was evolving. I was working my way up the ladder. I was learning so much. He was giving me extra responsibility, and to the degree that he got frustrated with me, he also really valued me. Like, I definitely got to see both, I'm sure, with this other company, it was hysterical. I just they, like, they like to get upset and frustrated for like, the sake of it. And you see the difference, though, like, I would bring problems to the table with the other one, and he might be frustrated and annoyed, and be like, but figure this out. I want it this way. And I'd be like, I could do that, right? And then this other company would be like, we're not helping you. No, we don't even want to do it. Like, why are you bothering me? And I was like, what is happening? Yeah, the Vice President, I remember, came over to my desk, someone done time, and just started yelling at me. And I was like, and I just looked around, I go, Why are you yelling at me? I was like, I'm doing my job. And she just, she looks at me like, all confused and like, and I think just, it's like, you'll go in certain cultures you guys, where you look at it and you're like, What are you guys doing? Like, I think you're just used to this. And this is the dynamic, and other people are responding, so you just keep doing it. But the one person who doesn't respond like you make them question it. For one I just remember the look on her face in that moment, like, why am I yelling? Yeah, why are you yelling? Girl? Like, nothing's happening, like everything's a normal day, like I just got here, like, chill bro and then this hysterical look on her face, and then she walks away. She's like, I just want to make sure. And I was like, Well, I'm good, like, you don't need to check in, like, check in with your own team. They're the ones who's holding it up, you know. But it was really funny, because I left that job really fast, really, really fast because I had this dynamic of a culture that was unwilling to shift or change, and I couldn't get my job done. But when I could get my job done, even when it was in a challenging dynamic. I was thriving, right? And I was having fun, and I was growing and I was evolving. So when you're working at a place, you're also interviewing them. When you're applying for a job, you're also interviewing them. You want to interview them, you want to check-in. Sometimes I remember I would even work for places that I knew had a bit of a chaotic environment because it sounded like it had the opportunities that I wanted. And I'm like, I can handle that, right? And sometimes, if you don't want that and you just want a different culture, you check in, you check-in, and you can research, and you can even talk to other employees. Like, I know sometimes there's certain companies where, like, I'll say like, to some clients like, you can ask to interview other employees to see their experience there, right? Because I've had clients who have been in very toxic cultures really wanted to get out of it, got lied to in the HR interview, and then are just locked into another job until they transfer. And so it's like, okay, well, how do we prevent that? You're also interviewing them, ask them a bunch of questions because they'll get caught up and they'll get tripped up. And then if you have someone else say, is there another individual that I can talk to? You'll find that once you talk to about two people and just ask some questions, that if there's, there's something fishy going on, you start to notice, and you're like, they're lying to me, something, something’s awry. And then you could just be like, This is not the company where you'll see a cohesiveness, and you'll hear a cohesiveness within these different employees if they're actually like a great culture. So yeah, as an employee, you're going to get interviewed like crazy, but don't forget to interview the individual and the company as well to make sure that you're investing in something that you want to stick around with long term because that's part of thriving too.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, um, this has been so fantastic. Carly, I really appreciate the, the insights that you shared around how to how because sometimes we think about thriving and we don't actually know what that means or looks like, and I think you really painted a clear picture of what that looks like. And so I really appreciate that. And I wonder, for people listening who want to learn more about you and your work, where can they find you?
Carly Pepin
Yeah, so you can go to the West Coast Growth Advisors, and then all my social media links are on there, and then also you can contact me directly there as well.
Kim Meninger
Excellent. So I'll make sure that that link is in the show notes. And I just really want to thank you, thank you for the work you're doing. Thank you for being here and sharing all of these insights with us. Yeah,
Carly Pepin
Yeah, thank you for having me. This was inspiring.