In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about career transitions. Career transitions can feel daunting for lots of reasons but they’re especially scary when you don’t know what you want. This week, I talk with Sarah JanTausch, founder of SRJ Coaching & Consulting and creator of the Values-Based Career method. Here Sarah shares her own career transition story that led her to the work she does today. She also offers practical tips for how to reach out to your network, how to maximize informational interviews and how to connect with your values to find the career path that’s right for you.
About My Guest
Sarah JanTausch is the Founder of SRJ Coaching and Consulting and creator of the Values-Based Career method. This method helps individuals to unlock the hidden job market and ditch burnout while creating a career move that is rooted in your core values, ideal work style, and goals. She holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from Ohio Wesleyan University and a Master of Science degree in Management and Leadership from Western Governors University.
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Website: https://www.valuesbasedcareers.com/
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Sarah, welcome, Sarah. I am so excited to be here with you today, and I would love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Sarah JanTausch
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you and your listeners today. My background, I'm in the career development industry, and I have founded a company called SRJ Coaching and Consulting, but it was a wild journey for me to actually get into this industry, and I'd love to share a little bit about that. So back all the way when I was nine years old, I decided I wanted to be a lawyer. So I studied politics and government and started my career in that field. Worked in campaigns for quite some time, loved the work, but there was something inside of me that was wanting to create something, and was gnawing and the reason I share this is I think your listeners might resonate with this. I didn't know what to do with that information. I aligned with my achievement. I hustled. I got the promotions. I kept moving my way. And there's still this interest of like, I need to create something. So, long story short, so working for some administrations, we were term-limited. So my job was ending because in Ohio, the governor can only serve two, four-year terms. And so at that point, I was looking to explore what I wanted to do next. And that was my opportunity, that I didn't know, to create something. So I started my first business, and then with the pandemic, kind of changing things up, I started my second business, which was the one that I've been really wanting to do for a long time, and that was helping people in their careers identify their goals and find what they're really meant to be doing. And so I was in this business for a couple of years, and I took an assessment, and the assessment said, you're one of your top jobs as a career advisor. And I go, that's interesting. And I look back at my life, and so many things made sense because of that moment. Back when I was in high school, I was obsessed with assessments, and this career assessment I took, you know, after I've already started this business, said to me, you'd be a great psychometrician. I had to look up the word of what that meant. But what I realized is that my interest in assessments my entire life, and getting every single assessment I get my hands on Strength Finder, Myers, Briggs, all of these things led me to this. So in some Asian curiosity led me to this career that I never thought was possible for me and didn't even realize existed. And it's filling my cup in those ways where I'm not, you know, I don't have this gnawing inside of me anymore. Fridays are no longer my favorite day of the week. It's Mondays, which is wild to me. And now I get to help people craft their careers through my values-based career model, and also network and build connections within their companies, organizations or wherever they happen to be that they actually enjoy through a framework called that. I call generosity-based networking.
Kim Meninger
Wow, that's that's where I got to. Where I am. I love it, and so I want to go back just a bit to it sounds like, based on the way you described it, your career reached a natural Crossroads at the end of the governorship is that the governor's term or so, you kind of had the did need to rethink what you wanted to do, but what, what were you doing? Like, was there any amount of planning or even just dreaming that you were doing ahead of that point, like, I guess I'm just, I'm trying to make sure for the for people listening, who don't have the the natural breaks in their career, like, how they can start to be thinking about this in action while things are still moving along?
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, I had about, I want to say, like, eight to nine months where I was like, Okay, I know this is ending with how some of the elections were going, like, I knew various people weren't getting elected, like campaigns I was working on, so I couldn't potentially pivot into those things. And so I knew there was this period of exploration of like, eight or nine months or so, and so I just started going out and holding informational interviews, because I wasn't sure exactly what I wanted to do. I didn't know if I wanted to stay in government. I didn't know if I wanted to go into government relations or lobbying or an adjacent field. At that point in time, I was just trying to figure out exactly what the next step was for me. And in some ways, it was really just a true career exploration phase where I was talking to people, gathering information, seeing what worked and what didn't for me. In a short period of time, I did about 50 informational interviews, which is a lot, especially for somebody like me who's an introvert. And some were great, and some were not as great. But that process announced to me at the time was the thing that actually drove this, this work that I'm in now. Because so two things. One, I started to realize there were things that worked and things that didn't work. With networking, both the framework and some guiding principles, curiosity above, if you do nothing else, Curiosity is the thing. I was asked to speak at a university a number of years ago, and I was forced to actually put the. Stuff together in a slide deck, and that's how I started to come up with generously based networking. So it's really ironic to me, in so many ways, that this period of trial and error and like, tumultuous like career development ended up being something that I talk about every day. So I say all of that because there were pieces of this where I leaned in and I'm like, maybe I want to do lobbying, and I met with a couple of contract lobbyists around cap square, and I was like, I don't think that's for me. And then I decided, okay, let's explore government relations over here. And I was like, Okay, well, that could be for me or maybe not for me. It depends on the field. And so it was slowly starting to just chip away and gather more information. And I think when you're in a career exploration phase. So first off, I encourage people not to wait until they're completely burnt out to start exploring and gathering this information. Otherwise, it's going to be driven by anger, fear, resentment, and you might want to rage quit. That's like the worst time to explore careers. But within all of that, it's starting to have those conversations really early on, if you know, maybe there's something else you want to do.
Kim Meninger
I think you make such an important point there, too. And you know, it's not as though we ever make decisions without our emotions, but if you wait until you reach a breaking point, it's very hard to be strategic. Well, and so I want to really stick with this informational interview concept for a moment. Because I think, you know, these days people have heard of it. Most people have, but it still feels kind of scary, right? And you talked about there were these different options that you were exploring for people who are listening and thinking about doing something like that. What do those conversations start with? Like, how do you approach them in a way that doesn't feel so scary? And I often think that people hesitate because they feel like they need more information to have the conversation, and then it becomes somewhat of a catch-22, right? You can't have the conversation till you have the information, but you can't get the information till you have conversation.
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, I think people don't do them too, because just the name informational interview sounds really scary. And some people I talk to think that's an actual interview, or they, they have their perception of like, Oh, if I get an informational interview, they're going to offer me an opportunity to get a job. And that is not what these are at all. It's, it's really a name, something that should be completely rebranded. I sometimes talk about them as like coffee chats or things like that, but I hesitate to do that because they aren't informal. They're an opportunity to let your curiosity drive the questions you ask and how you explore either starting or continuing a relationship with somebody in a professional setting. And so those conversations can really start from any they can be in person. They can be virtual. The people I work with have tons of success doing these virtually, especially in the environment we live in today. But these really start as researching the person that you want to meet with or what they're doing, so like somebody who might be in a dream job of yours, or something that you want to do, starting with research and leading based on curiosity. So that means, if you think you want to do something, but you're not totally sure, it's a great place to start, but if you're, you're like, I really don't think that's the direction I want to go, but maybe there are influences pushing me one way or another. That's probably not the conversation to have. And so starting around, if you have a particular job or something that you want, inviting somebody to meet with you, I usually start with, you know, 5-10-15 minutes of a phone call, unless you know someone really well, and it's just a nice invitation saying, Hey, here's I'm looking to learn more about what you do. I'm looking to learn more and how I'm coming with set questions that you have prepared in advance, my recommendation is to not grab questions off of Google because those questions aren't based on your genuine curiosity. If they're based on your genuine curiosity, you're going to be interested and engaged. And one of the things that trips people up, I think quite a bit, is they'll have one of these and logo I was, you know, I was bored or disengaged in the middle. And they think everything has gone wrong, and they think they should never do one of these ever again. And what that probably means more so is that the information that was shared with them might not be meeting them where they are today, and it might not be a path they need to walk right now, and it's time to gather more information. So these are really just their conversations, their exploration. They're not high stakes at all, and they're a start of a relationship.
Kim Meninger
I love the way you take some of the pressure out of it because I think you're right. They should be reprinted. They do have such an intimidation factor, and there's such an important way for us to gather information because one of the things that I say all the time is we don't know what we don't know, right? And so there's a limit to what we can imagine based on our own experience. And so it's only through talking to other people that we really get introduced to new ways of thinking about our careers and maybe in ways we never would have thought about them.
Sarah JanTausch
Absolutely. I think that we don't that idea that you just said we don't know what we don't know. That's the perfect way to go about it. You're just collecting a little bit of information. It doesn't have to be a ton of information. It just has to be a little nugget. And I think people, often they, they look at these as really high-stakes situations. The other thing is, most people just are taught or learn transactional networking by def like just the way we go through and interact with people. And so when you go into these the goal is not to get a job or an offer for a position. It's really to learn and build your connections because those things come when people get to know you and they like you and they trust you. Those opportunities come, they just might take a little bit or a longer period of time.
Kim Meninger
Yes, I like that too. And pacing yourself, I always think of as like you don't, don't propose marriage on the first date.
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I have totally used that analogy before. It is similar to dating in so many ways.
Kim Meninger
It really is. So I guess one of the questions that I have to is, what, what do you I'm trying to think of how to frame this because I think it gets every conversation is a little bit different, right? And, and a lot of times, maybe we're in the middle of it and things are going well, but then we think to ourselves, like, I want to be able to add value to this other person, or I don't know how to follow up because I feel like I'm taking advantage of this person. You use the expression generosity-based and so I think that because people are so afraid of engaging in transactional networking, they want to lead with some kind of value to the other person, and that can be hard to do if you don't know the other person, right? So how do you think about the generosity piece of the networking process?
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, I think often we think that the things that we have to give that are of value, are either things that we're hesitant to give or that wouldn't make sense to offer in a situation. And I think that, I think we need to, like, take that box and turn it on its head by showing up. Let's, let's say an example, you're networking within a company, and you want a promotion someday, but you may not have mentors or sponsors, and so you forge and you identify people in your company that you want to meet with, to learn a little bit about, potentially to find a sponsor someday, so somebody who might open doors and help you with that promotion, but you don't know which people you're going to click with. You don't know who you want to learn from, so identifying some of those people and having an introductory meeting. Now, what is the value that a junior employee could give to a senior employee? There's something really specific that I always like to pull out, and it's that when you get to leadership positions and you're at the top of an organization, what happens frequently you lose touch with what's really going on in the field at the bottom ranks of the company. And so having the perspective of a junior employee who actually hearing what's going on that you could share with that senior employee when they ask is super valuable information, and it's stuff you're already seeing. Hey, here's what's going on over here, here's what's going on over there, not from a place of complaining, but like that, that senior employee wants to know that information, and so that junior employee already is adding value just by existing and showing up other ways. When I'm networking with somebody who might not be in my organization, I like to ask, Hey, what are your what are the things you're working on, or what are you hoping to celebrate like in the next six months? Or what are some projects or things like that? When I'm talking to people who might have other businesses or things like that, and they start to tell me, I'm working on this, or I'm working on that, and sometimes there might be a connection that I have, that I can make for somebody else, or sometimes just being a sounding board is the thing person needed at that moment in time. And so there are so many things that we already naturally have as talents that we can give just by existing in a conversation. But that mindset shift of, if you're thinking, I have nothing to give or I have nothing of value, you're not going to be able to tap into your resources of who you are and your innate talents in that conversation. So it does take that intentional like I have something like I have something to give, I have something to offer, just by showing up before you walk into that conversation.
Kim Meninger
Yes, yes. I think that is a really great way to think about it. Thank you.
Sarah JanTausch
You're welcome.
Kim Meninger
I also want to think more broadly. If we can go back to what you talked about, a value- based career, because I think that's something that's really important. A lot of us have been conditioned to think about our careers very practically, and that can often create a mismatch between, you know, maybe what we're good at, or, quote-unquote, should be doing, versus what we actually want to be doing. Or there's that pressure too well, I was in school for so long, I should just keep going down this path. Like, how do you what is values-based career management, or career-adult development look like to you?
Sarah JanTausch
For me, this really started when I was evaluating what I wanted to do next, and the answer at that point in time was, I have no idea, and it was, there's clearly a gap between what matters to me and what I'm doing. Not that I wasn't working on important stuff, but there's something where there are things that I really care about and I wanted to do more of those things. So for me, it started with creating a values line. So what are my top five values and how, where do I want them to exist? How do I want them to be lived out? Are some of them values that I can exhibit at work and some where I can't, or all of them values? So starting to ask those questions that turned into a whole model of what is somebody's top values, what do they need in terms of, like, those details of salary and work model and flexibility, and do they have a disability where they need an accommodation, all those pieces that impact our work? And so when we're talking about that. That could mean, does the company itself actually have those values written on their website? Maybe. Could it mean that, example, one of my values is contribution. Could it mean that the company that I'm working for, the organization I'm getting involved with, or whatever I'm doing, is contributing to my community as a whole? Maybe. And so these things can be manipulated in various ways to align with what's important to us, but I think that when we have a mismatch on values, our core values at work, there's going to be some sort of nine annoying burnout, pressure, some sort of negativity, because we're not able to live our values at work, in our life, there's going to be that gap, and usually, like I think that comes out in I can't stand my work, I can't stand my boss, or constant complaining when we're outside of work and not being able to think about anything else we want to do, and it just creates this misalignment. But how do you know what your values are? I think so we're asked, What do we want to do when we grow up, when we're what toddlers? And we keep getting asked that, and then we have to decide before we go to college, if we're going to college, right? And our brains aren't fully formed until we're in our mid-20s. That fact once I've learned that a couple years ago, that fact is it's wild to me that we sit we have to decide what we want to do and then do it for the rest of our lives, but we're deciding we're still kids, and so that's why I really loved working with mid-career professionals because these people, other smart people, they've gone down this road, and they're like, I'm really dissatisfied, but I've put all this time and effort in that sunk cost bias. So that's where you go, all the way back to the beginning. Most people will think, okay, I need a new job. I need a new resume. I'd say, no, let's define your values first because we need to find your values. You might not even need a resume. You might be able to reframe things or grab a lateral position at a job or your company and check all the boxes. So I think starting with that, and then, you know, exploring, why have I stayed or why have I left certain jobs? Why have I chosen to do this work versus that? I think often we are leaning into the things that are others, values and beliefs, and we have to question whether or not those top five values that we've identified are ours or somebody else's, if they're ours, that is the guiding light for pretty much every decision after that.
Kim Meninger
I’m really glad you said that, too because I think that it's not uncommon for us to be living out someone else's dreams and values, right, which is hard to it's hard to face that, but it's really important for us to get in touch with what we want and who we want to be. And I like what you were saying earlier, too, about the frustration and the resentment that builds up over time. I often say that's people when we're meeting about something that's going wrong at work. And I'll say like, this sounds like a values conflict, right? Like, what's going on here? And help them to explore that, because as you're describing this exploration of your values mean you can sort of gage from a job description what is functionally going to look like, but it's the, it's the experience around you that's going to determine whether or not this is going to be the right fit for you. And if you don't know what your values are, you don't even know what questions to ask or how to vet these opportunities. Right?
Sarah JanTausch
Yes, exactly. You can't go in and interview the interviewer and assess if you wanna actually work for that boss. You don't know at that point, but if you know, hey, I thrive in this type of environment, because here's who I am and here are my values, and I ask a question to the future boss, and they say this, and that's their style of maybe coaching or mentoring, and I know that's not going to work for me. You instantly know if that's a job to take or not.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And sometimes people will say, Is it okay for me to ask this question? And more often than not, I'll say, if it's not, do you work there?
Sarah JanTausch
Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. I think so often people ignore the yellow and orange flags. And the thing is, is, I think. Yellow flags and orange flags are more to do with our alignment with an organization and a team, and they're not objectively bad things about the organization. And I think that often that all gets like, jumbled up and misconstrued.
Kim Meninger
Yes, yes. And so I wonder then if, if there are people listening who haven't started thinking yet about what they want to do differently, but they know they have that gnawing feeling that where I am is not the right place for me. How can they best use the time where they are? Because I often think about that as an as a you know you're in this space where you know this is not your future, but you know you have some runway here to be thinking about what some of the questions that you're talking about.
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, the, the first thing that I would encourage somebody to do is grab a notebook, if they don't already have one, and start making a couple of lists. What do you like about your job? What do you not like about your job? What do you like about your company? What you not do you not like about your company? And then go in from there and see what comes out. And don't just stop once you have, like, you know, half of a page filled up. Like, continue to answer these questions over a period of a couple of weeks, because after you get the easy stuff taken off, you're going to start to get into, like, the interesting more answers of like, Hey, this is really interesting to me. Like, or this one project I worked on I really loved. Take those lists of what you love and ask yourself, why is there a theme with the type of work you were working on? Were those projects where you weren't working with anybody and you're an intro and you don't want to talk to somebody, or were those projects where you're working on with a ton of people and you need more of that, just because you want to be around and collaborate with more people? There is so much data and in our own answer. So start there two. Define your own values. There are tons of values, card sorts and all things like that on the internet, activities that you can just grab for free. And three, if you have the bandwidth and you haven't already build your network within the organization that you're in, there might be a role that fits those, those journaling activities we just talked about that could be a lateral or a promotion that you could find your way into, and you might not even have to go through a full-blown job search, but maybe you do. But exploring those things and doing some of those informational interviews before you leave is the best time, because you have the access to those resources now and then, if you find it's not at that company, you can always leave.
Kim Meninger
Yes, well, and especially, I would think if you don't, perhaps look on paper like the candidate that they're asking for out in the external world, if you can make that kind of an internal transfer, even if it's just temporary, you have a chance to build up those skills and prepare yourself for an external search.
Sarah JanTausch
Absolutely, oh my gosh, that's the best way to do it. I love that idea,
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I like that too. About start where you are, because you just don't know if there are other opportunities in other every, every organization has its own culture, but every department within it has its own subculture too, right? And there are pockets throughout the organization. So even if you're unhappy with your current manager, or you don't like your current team, there may be another part of the company that has a very different vibe to it, right, that does align with you and your values. So it's not worth you don't want to give up prematurely, right?
Sarah JanTausch
Absolutely, I have a client that I worked with a while ago, who was in this situation. They were working for a global company, and they just it wasn't aligned. It was the management structure and all of that. And the prior team they were on, they loved it was perfect. And in a matter of a couple of weeks, through some key conversations, they were in another position that was lateral. They ended up getting a little bit more money, and it solved the problem, and they didn't have to, it was a matter of weeks. So those conversations can be super impactful, and you can find it.
Kim Meninger
Yes, and I love that you say, I mean, obviously everybody's situation is going to be a little bit different, but we often think too this is going to take so long. Or, you know, I'm we tell ourselves all these stories about I'm going to have to take a pay cut or not. One, the one that I hear most often, and I'm curious if you hear this too, is I'll never have the flexibility that I have in the job that I have.
Sarah JanTausch
Ooh, that's interesting. I, I have not heard that one as much. Usually, I hear if it's going to take forever, or it's going to take too long, or I don't have the time, but that one is really interesting to me.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, so people are really afraid that, because they have, even if they're not happy with what they're doing, it's predictable enough, and they're a known quantity, so their manager doesn't micromanage or over so they can leave if they have to do something for their kids, or they have, you know, a rhythm that allows for them to have more, you know, quote-unquote, work-life balance, and they're afraid that they won't get that if they go someplace else. But one of the things I was talking about with one of my clients recently is like, if everybody's worried about losing the flexibility they have, that tells me that there isn't just one place where you can get flexibility.
Sarah JanTausch
Absolutely, absolutely. That also means, like, if that's important, you've already got half of your playbook of what you need to ask in an interview, of like, how your team operates and what the culture is like, and starting to pick up on all those details there. The other thing is, there are so many different types of organizations. There are subsets of industries that I think are always going to have that flexibility. And there's so much out there. We don't know what we don't know. It goes back to your original point.
Kim Meninger
Yes, you’re absolutely right. And one of the things that I wanted to tie back into what you were talking about with the informational interviews too, is these are great people to ask this kind of stuff to, right? Because we're sometimes afraid to do that on a formal interview. But when you're talking to somebody and in this more informal way, right, you can ask questions that you may not ask in another setting.
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And they're they want to help you because if they can help you either avoid or come to a company that's aligned with you, it helps the whole organization. People want to help one another, especially if we're thinking about alumni networks. I just want to throw that out there. There might be 10s of 1000s of people in your network that would happily help you, and they're in every industry, but yeah, that's the perfect way to do it.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, I'm glad you brought up alumni networks too, because I have definitely found that to be the case from a university perspective, right? My fellow alumni are always super supportive, and you feel this natural kinship, right? Like once you find out that you've gone to the same school, but even alumni of other companies that you've worked for can be great, too. It's just that that common bond that makes the link a little bit warmer than it otherwise would have been.
Sarah JanTausch
Yeah, if we can find a there was this talk I listened to a long time ago, and it was, basically, if you can find a connection point with a people, place or thing, with somebody, and if you've got alumni, like they've worked at the same company, or they've gone to the same school, you've already got one, you've got a commonality point, you can just dive right in, and it's so much easier. Yeah,
Kim Meninger
Yeah, oh, I like that. I think that's a really great thing that gives people homework too to think about before reaching out and, and speaking of that, because some people have vast networks, and some people have more limited networks. Maybe they've been in the same company for 20 years and they haven't been spending a lot of time externally networking. Do you have thoughts on the outreach, like, tactically, I mean, people are so afraid of saying the wrong thing, or, you know, sounding too forward, like, Do you, do you have some general guidance on how to how to do that initial outreach to somebody, particularly if it's somebody you don't know well?
Sarah JanTausch
I do, and I think starting with just the one, the truth and two exploration, it's really easy to say to somebody, like, let's say you're like, you're, you're done, you're ready, you're like, you're gonna change jobs, but you are hesitant because, like, you don't know these people. You don't want to tell them your entire, you know, all the cars you want to let them, let them in, you can just reach out to somebody and say, Hey, I noticed this, or I saw this, or I came across you here, and I'm really intrigued by, or I'm really curious about, or I really like that, that article you wrote, or what you were, you were quoted, and whatever, you know, whatever Is that you're curious about, tell them that upfront, complimentary, but it's also true. So no fake compliments, but it's also true. And just say, hey, you know, I want to learn more about this and what you do, because it piqued my curiosity. And let's say, in my case, let's just use me as an example. So it's, you know, public. I was curious about government relations. I wasn't sure if I wasn't sure if I was going to go into government relations or lobbying or back into government or, you know, like I did, went into the nonprofit sector, I reached out and said, Hey, I really saw that you did a great thing with this piece of legislation when you got that Bill across the table, can you just, can we talk and can I learn a little bit more about you? I'm fascinated by your work. You didn't have to tell them, hey, I have no idea what I'm doing next, and I need a job, right? But it was about me learning, and what I got from learning. And my learning goal was, hey, that's interesting. Could I see myself doing this work? And so it's not about that end goal, it's about that curiosity piece. And people love, people love to talk about themselves. Here's the thing, they love to talk about themselves. So if you're an introvert, this is your golden ticket to go ask a bunch of questions, not have to talk, learn from them, and ease into that. And the other thing, if you're worried about saying something the wrong way or asking the wrong question, if you're thinking about it from transactional networking, it's always going to be high stakes. But if you think about it from generosity-based networking, you are just starting the relationship. There's so much runway here. Think of it as like the first two inches before a plane starts to take off. There’s a long runway ahead of them. This is just those first two inches of that first conversation.
Kim Meninger
That takes so much of the pressure off for you and the other person. Because I think too, if you make the conversation feel like it's a job. Opportunity-based conversation. The other person may feel intimidated by that too, because they might feel like they don't have any influence over it, or I don't know you well enough to put my name on the line for you, right? Whereas, if it's more like you're saying more curiosity-based Anyone can tell you a story, anyone can give you some advice. And I love, I say that all the time too. People love to talk about great they like to feel seen and special, like you've chosen them for a reason, and so to just be very honest about what it is that interests you, and then leave the job conversation for later because you also don't want to back yourself into a corner. You might say, right? Like, oh, I'm interested in jobs at your company. And then what if they offer you one and you don't want it right, or you're not ready yet?
Sarah JanTausch
Yes, yes. You don't want to back yourself into a corner, and neither do they. Absolutely. This is just a soft way to start that. And then maybe they say, Hey, do you know of anyone you know down the line? And you might even have to be the right person, but you might know somebody, and then you can make a connection for them. [Yeah.] Yeah, you never know what's going to happen.
Kim Meninger
That's right. That's another way to be of value too, is you have a network that they may want to tap into. [Absolutely.] Yeah, oh my gosh, Sarah, this has been so great, like you've given us such practical tips, and I think it's such a daunting process when you're thinking about making a change. Because, as we all know, the familiar, even if we're not happy, there is very powerful. And, we stay in our comfort zones often longer than we want to. And so I think just giving people some getting started tips is so helpful. Is there, is there anything that's on your mind that I didn't ask you, that you tend to think about as part of this getting started process?
Sarah JanTausch
I would just say, if you can find a way to cultivate curiosity and know what that feeling feels like in your body, or what types of thoughts pop up in your mind when you're in that mindset, that is going to be more important than any question you ask any job you apply to, because if you're leaning into that curiosity piece. The second thing I just want to share, and this is not my original quote. I forget who shared this with me, but somebody told me this years ago, and they said, Courage comes before confidence. And I think with that, it just clarifies you're you don't wait to feel confident to go do that thing. Don't wait to feel confident to ask that person to go have coffee with you because the first time you do it, you're not going to be confident, but you can have courage.
Kim Meninger
Yes, that's fantastic advice. I always think about that too. I usually say confidence follows action, which is the same thing, right? Because you can't, you can't study or prepare your way into confidence, you're always going to feel uncomfortable like you said, until you do it. So I think just knowing that discomfort comes with the territory, and doing it anyway.
Sarah JanTausch
Always, yes, yeah. I think the other thing I'd add is Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway by Dr Susan Jeffers, oh my gosh, best book I've ever read on this topic.
Kim Meninger
Yes, a great recommendation. I think that's another good one here. Thank you again. I think this is a really great way to kick off a new year or two for anybody who's kind of been on the fence about whether it is the right time. And I just love your approach, the values-based one in particular as a way of thinking about it. And if anybody wants to learn more about you and your work, and you know what, what you may be able to offer them, or how. Where can they find you?
Sarah JanTausch
You can find me on values-based careers dot com and I'm also on LinkedIn.
Kim Meninger
Excellent. So we'll make sure that those links are in the show notes for anyone who is interested. And thank you again, Sarah, for being here.
Sarah JanTausch
Thank you so much for having me this is a great conversation and I appreciate it.