In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about how to better understand and manage our feelings. Do you know the difference between your feelings and intuition? For many of us, it can be difficult to tell them apart. Here I talk with Joanna Armstrong, an emotional relief expert, about how to interpret our feelings and use them as information to guide us forward. We also talk about how our feelings generally reflect the rules of society whereas our intuition helps us define our own paths.
About My Guest
For the past 14 years, Joanna Armstrong has been helping clients free themselves of everything from stress, worry, insecurities and overwhelm to anxiety, fear, sleeping problems and imposter syndrome. Her clients are raving about her unusually liberating science-based technique, combining EFT-tapping, EMDR and Positive Psychology. Being a so much wiser burn-out survivor, she now enjoys her family life on a woodland homestead in the countryside.
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Connect with Joanna:
Website: https://www.blissyjoy.com/
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Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome, Joanna. It's such a pleasure to meet you. I'm excited to have this conversation. And I'd love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Joanna Armstrong
Thank you, Kim. It's great being here. Glad that we can have this this talk. And we've roughly said that it would be about impostor syndrome. And yes, that is something that most ambitious people know something about. And, and that is partially my story. In spite of being very capable, I always saw myself as a brother, clever, not best in class or the greatest at all, but that I thought of myself as a rather easy-to-learn, easy-to-fit-in kind of a person. And I had ambitions still have. But somehow along the way, in spite of having fairly decent grades and being well liked, and there was something that wasn't obvious about any of it. Was I really were like to was I really doing well enough? Was I really going to make it? Would people really like me and what I had to offer? And do people value my opinions in spite of, of seemingly positive feedback, and people saying that I was doing the right thing or, or agreeing with me. There was this, this self-doubt, wasn't really good enough, was it really did they really mean what they were saying? And working on myself and helping others. They say that when the student is ready, the teacher shows up, and I was ready to figure out what this was all about. I wanted to not feel suspicious of people or not trusting them and not being able to take on praise. I mean, that's a classic, isn't it impostor syndrome is all about not being able to take in that someone actually enjoys your company, or whatever, you have to say you are who you are. So on that journey, I've discovered all kinds of wonderful things. And I'm helping others with relieving this, this trouble. So yeah, that's, that's me in a nutshell.
Kim Meninger
I so appreciate that. And I think you described the experience very well. I mean, you know, I could see myself and a lot of what you were saying, and I wonder, what, what field were you in? What kind of work were you doing?
Joanna Armstrong
Well, I started off. As an illustrator, I went to the School of Visual Arts in New York City. But before that, I was not sure what I wanted to do. But at the School of Visual Arts, I do have a bachelor of fine arts, but I became a commercial artist. And I that was my first exposure to are you good enough? Are people going to buy your design? Are people gonna get purchase your illustration? Will they print it in their, their fancy magazine. So being an illustrator, you kind of need to be or design or anyone creative, really, you're supposed to show your true colors. And of course, if you're doubting those colors, if you're doubting, your style, your, your design, you’re your, your taste, then and you're looking for feedback, I mean, the feedback is that they buy that they like it that they say that it's good. But if you can't trust that, then then you're really struggling. And life isn't all that happy because you can't be in your skin. Because it's a vicious circle. You're constantly trying to affirm that you're doing the right thing, but because you can't trust what you're getting, because you know, they might not be honest with you, then, yeah, you're always unsettled and always doubting life, which, which isn't a really good place to be at all.
Kim Meninger
You're right I absolutely and for some of us, and I speak from personal experience here, it's more of a way of life that we're not isn't even necessarily aware of right? You're just kind of these are the passive thoughts that you kind of accept at face value. How did you know that you needed to do something about it? At what point did you realize I can't go on like this?
Joanna Armstrong
Well, I probably got sick and tired of it enough. I came to a point where it just wasn't going to have it like this anymore. This wasn't a life worth living. So and part of it, I think, has to do with the fact that we're taught somewhere that life isn't supposed to be easy. Of course, I know now that life is supposed to be easy we are it is supposed to be a smooth ride. But because somehow, you know, you're supposed to get those grades, and that takes some work and, and you have to struggle some lot. And that's not even the way to be. That's, that's a misunderstanding as well, but you need to struggle, but that's how society teaches us to be, you're supposed to put your best side forward and, and all of that. But when you when you're not happy with it, I wasn't like, yeah, I guess I started to ask for a better way than the stories I had bought for all these years, growing up in the school system, and parents and well, meaning me, well-meaning neighbors and all that. So yes, I just decided that there's got to be something better.
Kim Meninger
And that's a kind of a liberating experience to when you realize it doesn't have to be this way. And I love what you say about the, the belief that so many of our cars are taught implicitly or explicitly that life isn't supposed to be easy. And I also think about this in connection to even the way that we value or we don't value, what we bring to the world is usually our greatest opportunity to be a value is through our strengths and the things that come naturally to us. But we often are so focused on what we don't know, or we think that if it comes easily to us, it doesn't have as much value as something that is really hard. And so it really is a mindset shift [Yes] needs to happen.
Joanna Armstrong
Absolutely. And, and also a belief that there might be something better out there, that maybe you've been wrong. But for real, I mean, you're looking for that, that confirmation that you are okay, that maybe you have been wrong, maybe you actually have been doing the wrong things. So it's not that wrong, is, is bad, being wrong. And looking at that as a possibility is actually very, very helpful. Of course, that's again, not what we're taught, we're not taught to value our weaknesses, so, so, so to speak, and that's what society calls them. But nowadays, I tell my clients that don't believe your feelings, follow your intuition. And that's that little shift, that kind of points to what is going on your feelings might be causing all kinds of trouble for all kinds of reasons. You have bought into society's rules, whoever our society is, and whoever sets those rules, but you're bought into certain rules. And part of what you said, the liberation has to do with saying, “No, I'm not going to follow those rules. No, I need to find my way.” And so to clarify, your feelings follow, often, the rules of society. Whereas your intuition, that's your path. That's your reason to be here. And that's a different conversation as to what our reasons are, and, you know, with if we come from previous lives or whatnot, but in my book, that's where the true message lives, in your intuition. And if you follow that, which is scary because it often goes against what your near and dear even think that's where freedom is. That's where liberation is. That's where joy is. So that is what I want to convey and teach my clients and yeah.
Kim Meninger
I think about this a lot, because we're very reactive creatures. human feelings are very, how, [yes and quick]. Yes. They, they take over they, they appear often before we consciously even recognize what we're reacting to. [Yeah.] And so I think about, you know, I have personally struggled with anxiety for so much of my life that I feel like the anxiety sometimes is so noisy, that I can't even hear my intuition. Getting to the layer of intuition, like working through the feelings can be really hard, especially if you a aren't aware of what's happening. And B, you feel like you don't have the time, you're not creating the time to pause and reflect and do some of this work. Like, what is your advice, like at a at a very beginner level for how to sort of separate out feelings from intuition? Like, what's the first step for somebody who hears themselves in this conversation, but has never done anything like this before?
Joanna Armstrong
All right. Well, the first step is to, as you said, take a little time, and give yourself a little time, and according to studies are negative emotions that overtake us so quickly. And surprisingly, they come from nowhere. And they're extremely strong because it's about survival. This is a mechanism that, in its positivity is good, it's good to keep it. But these feelings anxiety, for example, they only last for 90 seconds, 90 seconds. So a minute and a half. That's, that's what you've got to work with. So if you can allow yourself a minute and a half, stepping out, taking a walk. taking a cold shower, that's a bit complicated, but just flushing your face with, with cold water. Or in my case, I like tapping, I teach tapping and EMDR and blissful energies. It's it all kind of breaks the state of this is taking over and this will last forever. So once you broken that state, by doing something physical, and tapping, EFT tapping is a physical thing, you're actually effecting your state and breaking, breaking this, this hypnosis, if you will, self-hypnosis, oh, this feeling is true. It's so strong, it's so powerful, it must be important. Well, don't believe it, it's important in that it does come with a very, very good message. And if you listen to it, if you take these 90 seconds to listen, what the message is saying. It's usually fear. It's Oh, no, it's a oh, this is horrible. If you listen to what is horrible, and what this feeling doesn't want, or is afraid of, then it's like talking to yourself. It's like talking to your inner child, the inner child work. And when you realize what it's really about, then you can solve it together. You The you that is observed is the observer. And this feeling that is a survival mechanism. The two of you can actually find a solution. So I had this feeling just the other day and I've worked on this before and yet it jumped down from absolutely no, no, that's not true. We get triggered. Something happens that reminds you of something that happened a long time ago Quite possibly. And if you believe in past lives, maybe even in the past life that what I did was I let myself have this feeling as opposed to start denying it. Oh no, not this No, not now. No, no, no. Oh, this is horrible. Oh, Gonna look crazy or, Oh, I don't want to cry now and, and I let myself have it have the 90 seconds. And sure enough the core of it came out, which was that I get really, really sad and upset, it hurts me to my, in my soul, it hurts me my soul when I'm trying to do something good, or someone laughs in my face. That really, really, really good. Just devastates me. There's a part of me that gets devastated. And I could trace it back, I remembered that as a little child, I had this really important thing to tell to someone, I don't know who. But the feeling of oh, I have this really amazing thing for you, I need to share this amazing, this is really, really great as someone just shut me down. So that realization insight frees you, it frees you up. And then I might have to have this reaction one or two more times. But if I let myself have it, then it will melt away. So it's only 90 seconds, if you can give yourself 90 seconds and have a chat with this really, really overwhelmingly crazy feeling that yeah, sure the feeling is real. But the message not necessarily.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, yeah. And I often think about it that way too. I think of feelings. In particular, particularly the ones that make us uncomfortable, whether that's fear or anger or frustration, etc. are useful to the extent that they give us information. There when you when you feel that if you pause for a moment.. [90 seconds] 90 seconds, yeah. It gives you a moment to check in and say, Wait, what just happened? Right? Why did I respond this way? What and I'm thinking about it as you're talking about connecting it to something that may have happened earlier, because so often, what you describe as the as the having something really important to share, and somebody is dismissive of it. Those kinds of experiences happen at a time in our lives, when we have much less power, much less agency, much less even sophistication in our brain to be able to process why that might have happened, right? We're such egocentric beings to begin with, but especially as children, you know, it's like, oh, then that's, that's a decision. That's a dismissal of me as a human, not that the person I was talking to may have been distracted by something else, or, you know, something that we could have rationalized. And so to be able to connect these dots allows you to then going forward have a different response. [Yes.] Next time, something like that happens.
Joanna Armstrong
Yes. So in my book, when you have a bigger-than-life emotion, these attacks and that is always about something else. It's not about what's happening, it's, it's coming from much further back, and it might have happened repeatedly. And, and all of that and that's why it's so important to let it happen. Because the message is crucial. And if you have that little chat with this message and iron things out, or sometimes it's about coming to some sort of understanding, well, if this can't be then can we do this and, and play with the possibilities. Yes, this person was horrible. But are they really gonna hit me? Will they really push me down? Are they Is it real? That that is so crucial? Because the big, big, big the biggest feelings are usually not real. And we're obviously we're not talking about you know, stepping in front of a bus or anything like that. And that's why you should not try to remove these feelings. But when you know and you do know that the situation doesn't warrant the this huge exclamation of emotions because you, you do know you might not like it you might not be appropriate. That's why you need to step out or take a little break or say, Let me think about it, let me come back to you, I just need to, you know, whatever, take a break. If you allow yourself to have that little chat, that will give you a different life, a new life, freedom to hear that intuitive voice. And the difference between your feelings and intuition is that your feelings often come with a negative message. Where's your intuition? Only wants your well-being?
Kim Meninger
Hmm, I'm glad you said that. Because I think it is important to be able to distinguish, sometimes, you know, as somebody who had been very intuitive at different points in my life, like I just had this very strong sense of, I know this is going to happen, or that this is the right thing to do, et cetera. I would sometimes confuse anxiety with intuition. And I would think this is a message I'm getting like, this is something that I should be paying attention to all this fear and worry around something. And then I was able to eventually reach a point that you just said, which is these two intuition and fear, speak to you differently, they come from different places, you can tell which voice is talking, if you really…
Joanna Armstrong
Exactly. And, and like you mentioned initially, that it's not that easy. It's simple, but not so easy. And immediately the complication is that this voice, your intuition that wants you to have the best life possible and is on all accounts might want you to might want you to move, I want you to change jobs, might want you to, to downsize, upsize, whatever thing that your ego and your fears and your society doesn't necessarily deem to be good. But if you do, and there is a part of you that that knows. So if you follow this voice, so if you downsize upside move, for whatever reason, there's something good waiting there for you there is ease. So instead of working harder and getting that promotion, this this this trend of downsizing the small, tiny houses and that whole lifestyle. Yes, that is going against society that says, oh, you know, we need more, more value for our shares. And the shareholders need to get more and more money every year and all these strange rules. Well, maybe they're not for you.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And that requires a lot of courage. [Yes.] Because it's really hard to not submit to the pressures of conformity.
Joanna Armstrong
Yes. And it's, it's, it's really hard, even in the smallest of places. What should we eat for Thanksgiving? Should we eat the same old? Or should we try something new? I'm really bored. Now. But it's tradition. We've always done it this. Yeah. But again, just because this is how it's done. So even in the smallest and most innocent of places this this test shows up. So maybe one new dish is a compromise. Maybe one little shift, maybe one step micro, micro targets and micro steps is new, whilst not know nothing is no but is popular now. So yes, because that's how you start moving. That's how you start changing. That's how you can start following that intuition. And yeah, it's all about ease.
Kim Meninger
Well, and I think intuition to a large extent, and I'm just thinking, as I'm talking here is values driven to write because one of the things I think about is that most of us have these kinds of feelings because we really care. We really care about how we show up in the world and the contributions that we make and the impact that we have and how we make other people feel and the reality is that if we were to be honest with ourselves and really look at The people that we admire, and the people that, you know, we sort of differentiate from the pack. Those are people who have gone against the status quo. Those are people who have gone against tradition, right? We don't get recognized for conformity. There's nothing special about being a conformist. And so it's really, really hard, like we're talking about, it takes a lot of courage to be the one to say we're not eating, or in other areas of our lives, but that is where we have the opportunity to really bring something new to the world, be more meet our potential and new ways.
Joanna Armstrong
Yeah. And that's, unfortunately, why it's a bit lonely, when you start on this journey. And so important that you do start parallel with taking these micro steps, you need to find communities that align more with, where you're going, where you're heading. And, and, and get support coaches, whatever help you can get. Definitely, definitely take it because that loneliness can make you go back revert to the old and not-so-great. Whereas the road ahead. Yeah, it's it's unknown, and that we're not necessarily comfortable with that. [Yeah, and I think…] The support is so, so crucial.
Kim Meninger
And the micro-steps piece is really important, too, because it's hard to go from zero to 60. But it's really hard to go from nothing to all. And so if instead, you look at it on a very daily level of you know, what is, what is my intuition telling me here, and I do something that's all a little less scary, and maybe a little less momentous, it's just chipping away at it, then you build the muscle that makes it easier to do in bigger moments.
Joanna Armstrong
But that's how any greatness is created. Every, every great idea. Creation building technique has started out with just a thought, an idea, someone wandering questioning. What could be better mean? That is the question, How can this be better? How can I be better? How can my life be better? How can I feel better? And if you let yourself follow the answer, no matter what. And with the micro steps, it's the easiest in the sense that you can validate each little tiny, tiny move, was it? Was it a forward step? Or was it a right step? Or what's your left step I needed to take? And, and decide field. However, you, you decide some people feel it, some people know it, some people just, just test it, you can always take a step back and take a left instead of a right. These steps aren't set in stone, you can always take it back. But start moving in any direction, really, to test the waters to test the temperature to, to see if it was right. And again, the intuition will guide you. If it feels right, keep on going. You might after five steps you might end up walking into a wall. Okay, so now what? It's the same question, well, what's better than facing this wall? Well, maybe I can dig, dig a little ditch underneath. Hire a little balloon and fly over. I mean, you will get the answers you will get good guidance when you when you ask in honesty. Now in some pompous, narcissistic, we're not talking about any of that right now. Because that's issues to themselves. But if you're honest, you will get that answer. What's the best to, to get out of having to stare into this wall that has arisen?
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I often think about it too, from the perspective of and this also requires some time to even think about this, but I often think about because that the feelings that show up in those moments are so powerful that we do often submit to the fight or flight response or you know, we just kind of do what's expected of us. But if we can pause long enough to ask questions, like you're saying of, you know, what's a better way to think about this? Or I often think of the question like, Who do I want to be? In this moment? Right? So when I look back on this, what will I be proud that I did, as opposed to, right, like, what did I just reflexively do? But all of that requires the ability to catch yourself in the moment in the first place.
Joanna Armstrong
But yeah, except I would like to add that you don't need to catch yourself. And that that because catching yourself implies that you could somehow avoid that feeling. Good point. So it's not necessarily about catching yourself. It's about having that little chat with that. Hugely upset feeling. Because it wants something, it's got something on its mind, it's, it's upset about something, it's, it's like handing a little child. So it's like having a three year old five-year-old, who's completely distressed over something. And as we mentioned earlier, maybe that was you, when you were at that age. So that's how you need to handle this little well, person feeling the inner child, you need to, to accept it. Yeah, it's a huge feeling. So let's, let's just sit down, let's walk out let's step away from if you're, among other people, or it might be easier or it is easier to, to go away. And, yeah, it's, it's the self-love. That's where that comes in. Self-love is not just letting yourself buy that hugely expensive outfit. This is also self-love on a completely different and quite possibly more important level, your fancy outfit that you shouldn't buy, because you can't really afford it. So spoiling yourself is not necessarily the best choice. But having a chat with that upset feeling is definitely the way to go.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. Thank you so much, Joanna, this has been such a great conversation. I think this has given us a lot of insight and practicality too and the micro-steps that you're talking about. For anybody who wants more of you and your work, where can they find you?
Joanna Armstrong
Yeah, thank you. I have most of my work and my offers. And I have a learning micro-course, where you can learn how to become happier the steps to happiness. And again, it's not the haha, happiness. As much as it's the blissy, joy, happiness, and that's why I call my company bliss, see joy, and that's B-L-I- S-S-Y And joy.com. So it’s blissyjoy.com. So, whoever would like to, to take those steps or for whatever reason, they're welcome to, to contact me.
Kim Meninger
Wonderful and I'll put that link in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. Thank you again, Joanna. I'm so great-…
Joanna Armstrong
Thank you. It's been great.