In this episode of the Impostor Syndrome Files, we talk about how easy it is to buy into the narrative that we need shame and self-criticism to propel us forward. My guest this week, Kamini Wood, is a human potential coach who shares her own journey with proving herself, people pleasing and perfectionism. We also talk about the power of self-awareness to break free from this trap and become our best selves.
About My Guest
Kamini Wood, a certified life coach, helps high-achievers heal their relationships with themselves. She helps people take courageous steps in identifying limiting beliefs, reasons for stagnation and overcoming self-doubt in order to live a fulling professional and personal life.
She is the creator of AuthenticMe® and CEO of Live Joy Your Way - a coaching company helping high performers and overachievers who have seen success through old-rooted, traditional metrics, reestablish their relational self-awareness. Trained in internal family systems and cognitive behavioral-based coaching, she can help her clients navigate past traumas and toxic relationships and truly live in self-acceptance, -self-confidence, and self-leadership.
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Connect with Kamini:
Website: https://www.kaminiwood.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsauthenticme/
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Connect with Kim and The Impostor Syndrome Files:
Join the free Impostor Syndrome Challenge.
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Schedule time to speak with Kim Meninger directly about your questions/challenges.
Websites: https://kimmeninger.com
Transcript
Kim Meninger
Welcome Kamani, it is so wonderful to meet you. I'm excited for this conversation. And I'd love to start by inviting you to introduce yourself.
Kamini Wood
Well, first of all, thank you for having me and allowing me the opportunity to have this conversation with you. I am what I refer to as a human potential coach. And what that really means is I am working with individuals one-on-one to help them understand themselves on a deeper level. My work is not about diagnosis, it is about understanding because I truly believe that when we understand ourselves, on that deeper level, we come from a place of curiosity, we can move ourselves forward, whether it be professionally or personally, truth is both of those things are very intertwined. So that's really, who I am and what I do from a professional basis on a personal basis. I'm also the mom to five, my oldest is a 22-year-old ballerina, and then I have a 20-year-Division one athlete who's in college 17-year-old, so she's getting ready to look at colleges or apply to colleges, a freshman in high school, and then a 10-year-old.
Kim Meninger
Busy, my goodness. So have you always done this work? Did you have another sort of career that brought you down this path?
Kamini Wood
Yeah, actually, where I am now is not where I actually set out to be. When I first started working in the business world, I actually was part of the.com Industry the.com, boom, I started off being hired as I thought that I was hired as a product manager, I was actually treated more like an administrative assistant for the team. And so I had to kind of dive deep into my own knowings, about myself. And I quickly rose from that role into running the project management office for the.com. At the time, from there, I went on and actually ended up building and running my husband's law practice for about 15 years. In both of those roles, what I found, that I truly enjoyed was working with people and then helping them understand what it was that they needed. So in the project management space, you're really working on how to get these projects done. But what we forget is that it's also about the people, the people or what's going to drive the projects forward. And that's where I really, truly enjoyed my work. And even in the running the law practice it was about the employees and understanding where what they wanted to accomplish that we made sure that we were offering them opportunities to continue to grow. Likewise, with the clients understanding what they were wanting out of their situation. Again, that's where I kept finding myself over and over again, from a professional standpoint. Now, there's also the personal aspect I mentioned earlier, that professional-personal are very intertwined. I'm in, I live and breathe that. So from a personal perspective, I was going through, as I said, I'm a mom and I was watching my kids start showing up as people pleasers and perfectionist and how we're starting to hold them back. And I had that self-reflection moment of all they're getting this from me. And so I went through my own transformation and my own awareness of what was happening, and where I was actually holding myself back. And so when after I went through that, I realized that what I had been doing professionally, and what I kept being drawn to is not the business side of things, it was the people side of things. And I had this personal experience now. And that's actually what I was being called was bring those two worlds together and work with people, one on one, to help them understand themselves better so that they can move, thank you move forward.
Kim Meninger
I love that you call out the importance and often the neglect of the people in any work situation, right? Because you can have the best project management in the world, you can have all the greatest goals, but it's your people, they're gonna drive them. And if your people are not developed and nurtured and cared for in appropriate ways, then you're always going to fall short of whatever it is that you're setting out to do.
Kamini Wood
Yeah, yeah. It's the understanding of what your people need, where they are, what, where might they need support, what they can bring to the team. I mean, oftentimes, one of the things that I end up talking a lot about with my clients is just burnout. And it comes from this fact of, especially in businesses, we tend to forget that these individuals that are on our team, they're people with feelings and emotions and needs and desires. And when we don't acknowledge those things, there's that, that lack of, of being the not being seen. There's a lack of community and tribe, there's the insufficient rewards is what it's often referred to. All of those things will contribute and those individuals will end up on that road to burn Not because they end up over giving and keep giving, striving and striving and striving, and they're never really getting what they need out of it. And so we're finding a lot of businesses are dealing with employees who are burning out, because of that mere fact that we're forgetting that these are individuals who do truly have needs and desires and emotions, and they're bringing those things to work. It's not to say that they'll be vulnerable at work. And you know where that throughout the day, but if we can have empathy for it, and we learn how to build empathetic leaders, we can move, we can move so much further.
Kim Meninger
So what do you see as the breakdown? Because we are talking in large part about high achievers, right, we're talking about people who want to bring them their best selves to work, they have high expectations of themselves, and they are going and going and going. So where's it breaking down? Where does the challenge show up?
Kamini Wood
I think it can be a multitude of things. So one of the things that I think high achievers really struggle with is a false belief that they have to prove their worth. And they don't necessarily know that that's what's operating in the subconscious. So they're continually striving, in order to prove that they're worthy of either the role that they have or the title that they have. And that's a slight play on impostor syndrome, right? Because it's a belief that I don't deserve the thing that I have had to continue to prove it. I think the other thing that happens is, there is this and we can say maybe it's society, maybe it's cultural, familial, our own personality, it's one of those or combination of those where we start to assimilate this idea that if we put ourselves down, that's going to propel us forward. And so there is that self-criticism aspect that contributes to it as well, where we almost shame ourselves thinking that that's going to help us achieve. And that actually keeps us from achieving because at some point, we're going to internalize those, those negative thoughts about self, we're going to internalize that shame. And it's going to, it's going to plateau, us at some point, most of us high achievers have learned and I happen to be when we've learned how to push through, but we get to a point where we are stuck or stagnant. Because that shame will just kept us out at some point. So we have to start understanding that shame isn't the thing that moves us forward, if we can lean into things like self-compassion and kindness over judgment, that's what's going to actually push us even further.
Kim Meninger
You make such a great point. And I see this a lot. I think perfectionism is highly tied to this as well. There's this feeling that if I am not constantly judging myself in some way, right, that I'm gonna get too comfortable. That yeah, yeah. That inner judge to keep me going. And you're absolutely right, that it's, it's the opposite of that, right? Because our brains believe what we tell them. So yes, yeah. I always say that our brains are not fact-checkers, right? If you tell yourself enough times that you're not good enough, you won't, you will believe that at some point. And so I wonder. And obviously, this is a complex issue, or we would have solved it already. But I'm curious how you think about breaking this cycle? Are there? Is there a first step? Is there a way to think about this? Because so much of this, like you said, is so deeply wired into us based on our personal experiences. And most of us are doing this to ourselves for a very long time, if we, if we want to make a change? How do we even think about going about doing that?
Kamini Wood
That is such a great question. And I know that I've even used the metaphor even with myself of the fear of if it's like the, the metaphor of your foot on the gas pedal. And if you take that foot off of the gas pedal, everything is going to stop, when in fact, if we release our foot off of that gas pedal, the car still Coast's it only stops if we press the brake pedal. And we forget that we continue to tell ourselves No, no, as soon as I take that foot off the gas, the whole thing is going to just come crashing down, it's going to totally fall apart. And so the step that I talked about is, allow yourself maybe to take that foot off of the gas, just release it ever so slightly, you're going to notice that you're still moving forward. And how do we do that? It's bringing these things to the awareness, start naming those thoughts that we're having, say them out loud, so we can be our own witness. Because a lot of times, it's like you said, it's so deep, ingrained. It's on autopilot. We don't even know that that's what's operating. So if we can actually say these things out loud, it's the same thing with shame. When working through shame. One of the things I always say is it has to be witnessed, and the way that we can witness it is speak it out loud, so that we can actually hear it with our own ears. So if we start hearing what that Judge voice is saying, or we start hearing what the inner critic is saying out loud, we can now step into observer mode and say, Wow, first of all, that's really cool. It's really mean and, and how is that actually going to help me here? Like, that's the second part of that question. Because really, when we start asking that curious question, it's like, what? What is that negative thing? When I'm calling myself all of these names? How is that helpful right now? And we'll start to recognize, okay, that's not helpful. What would actually be more helpful right now is if I took an action, and that meant something that was valuable to me, that might actually move me forward, when I'm just sitting here, telling myself that I'm not good enough. Not doing much, I'm not moving forward, I'm literally staying put versus, wow, I'm noticing I'm saying that I'm not, I'm not good enough. And if I were to lean into something that would be meaningful, right now, I would take, you know, X action, I would do this small little thing to move myself forward when we don't take the time to actually speak it and witness it, it just plays in the back of our heads. So that's really what I talk a lot about is this idea that awareness is the doorway to change. We have to bring these subconscious thoughts to the conscious so that then we recognize that we do have choice points. We have the choice point to either stay there and go away from where we want to be, or we can make a choice that takes us towards where we want to head.
Kim Meninger
I love that so much. Because I think that awareness sounds so simple. But at any given moment, we have so much going on in our brains. And in our world where we're constantly bombarded with external stimuli. And our brains are just there's so much chatter that we are not I like how you use the term autopilot, because I think that's a really good way of describing it. We're not conscious of thoughts of our behaviors, so much of what we do is reactive, as opposed to proactive. And I love the connection between the awareness and choice, because as long as it is happening under the surface, it's always going to be our own reflexive nature that shows up as opposed to the thoughtfulness or intentionality of saying, wait a second, I can choose a different path here.
Kamini Wood
Yes, yes. Yeah, the distinction I will use oftentimes is reaction versus responding. So reaction is exactly what you just said, where it's that reflexive, it's just by default, that's where we go that's reacting, versus slowing down, recognizing we have a choice. Now we're responding. Now we're being generative with where we're headed. So we're still that's it, we're still doing something, there's still some response, so to speak, but one is very passive. It's reactive. It's just okay, this is just how I normally am responding is choosing, I'm actively choosing to do X, Y, or Z.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And I love that action-oriented nature of what you were sharing earlier to even going back to that question that you said about how is this helping me. Because I do think that a lot of what's happening in that moment when that judge just gets louder and louder is fear, right? It's fear that something terrible is going to happen and our brains are swooping in and trying to keep us safe. But the rumination, the constant criticism is not helpful. It's helpful in my mind, it's helpful to the extent that when it kicks in, it's information, right? It's a signal that your brain has detected the threat your, your, but then to examine it further, and ask yourself those questions of what would be helpful here, right, like, what's the action I can take? What's the support I can seek out something that moves you out of that place of just swirl?
Kamini Wood
Yes, yes. In your right. I think we are as humans. I mean, we're, we're sort of we're survivors like that's what we're meant and built to do is surviving. And what we're talking about here is moving into thriving, right, where it's we're not just about survival, we're also trying to move towards thrive. And in order to do that, being aware of those thoughts, they have a purpose that the ruminating thoughts have a purpose. For most of us, that part of us is, is trying to keep us safe, trying to think about every possible way that this situation could unfold. Again, with the intention to survive, if we slow it down. How is this helping me? What am I gaining from this now or shifting into that I intention to thrive? What do I need to dial in to or lean into to thrive to move myself forward? Because just sitting here, in this spinning thought is just keeping me alive? Yes. But I want to actually live. That's the distinction.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And I think that's a really great way to say it. And you know, I feel like there's a lot of this that's so biologically hardwired into us, as we're talking about, right, like those negative responses. They're habitual, in the sense that I think a lot of them get established at times, women have less power, less self-awareness, less control over our environments. And then they become so second nature that we don't question or update them. But they're also part of the way our brains have just evolved in order to keep us safe as we're talking about. But because of that, I always think about the opportunity that exists to be more proactive about inserting new habits, I don't think the positive things that we're talking about are necessarily going to be second nature, we can rely on our brains to serve up the positive. It's just not how they're wired. And so when we think about the fact that we're all really busy, that we're all creatures of habits, the habit that we strive for efficiency. Think about introducing new ways of thinking in sustainable, more realistic ways. Are there like bite-sized things that people can do? Because I know sometimes when we're talking, it might sound like I just have to completely change my entire approach to living.
Kamini Wood
Just feels overwhelming, right? And not gonna happen. No, that's such a good point. And, and yes, you're right. There's the biology, I think there's really the we have beliefs, biases, and biology, those three things are what are going to affect us and how we see things and how we operate. They tend to also affect our emotions in general, just how we feel about things. So when we're when we're breaking this down, you're absolutely right, that we can't just say, Well, let me just change my belief system that's been there for years. And we have to break it down into smaller bite-sized pieces. My, my go to is start with what are your core values? What is the most meaningful thing for you in your world today? Right, and values can change over time. But just find those core values. And then you can take those and you can also ask, what are my core needs, and those things can actually start guiding you into where what intentions you're going to be setting for yourself. And then with those intentions, you break them into smaller pieces that you can continue to move through. And as you break those into smaller pieces, you're going to start re self-affirming, like, you know, that's where your self-affirmation comes from. Because you're, you're doing this in small pieces. So you're changing, you're not changing a belief like full fledge, instead, you're changing little parts, were instance, just starting to become more mindful and present that could be the first intention is, you know what I'm realizing that I spend most of my time worrying about the future. So my bite-size switch that I'm going to make for myself is I just need to be more present. How am I going to do that, I'm going to check in with myself multiple times a day. And just notice what my five senses are experiencing, that's a great mindfulness tool is just dial into those five senses. So no matter I'm at a red light, what do I hear? And just dial into that, oh, I'm walking down the street, I'm walking my taking my dog for a walk, what do I see? Again, we're bringing ourselves that's that experiencing the present moment, that could be the bite-size shift that needs to be made, then as you become more present, maybe the next step would be to recognize the thoughts that are happening. Right. So now we're starting to notice, oh, there's the thought that I'm not good enough. Now we're becoming aware of that. So that's the second part of it. Now, once you're there, how is this helpful? Right? So we're breaking it down into start with shifting into out of the go, go? Go-go-go? present moment awareness? Now it's in what am I thinking? Name a couple of those thoughts. Just notice the name. And then the second part of that is start to challenge it. Is this helping me? What's this really about? You know, those types of questions what's actually true about me, and then we can shift it, those small steps will compound into the larger shift of that limiting belief that we started off with.
Kim Meninger
I really like that paced approach. Because I often recommend before you start taking any action, spend some time in observation mode. And that's a lot of what you're talking about, right? It's like, just pay attention to yourself in a new way. Notice your relationship to your environment, and what's triggering you and when are you feeling good. And you know, things like that? Because we just don't often notice in you know, we're, there's a physiological response, but we're not necessarily cognitively tuning into that.
Kamini Wood
Yes, yeah. And a lot of times we'll find, most of us will, we might look, for instance, I was just talking to a client recently about the propensity to numb and just sort of go numbing, whether it be by TV or some other way of numbing. And what we're talking about here is okay, we're not going to judge that we're not going to say that's bad or wrong or shame it instead, curiosity, go into that observer mode that you just mentioned, step back from it. recognize what's actually so there could be an event that creates that trigger moment. What are the thoughts? What are the emotions? What's my body feeling? And what, who was there? When that happens? Like, what are those relationship dynamics? What are those? Again? What are those cognitive thoughts? But also what are the feelings that are present, just paying attention, because when we do that, now we're shifting into that awareness place. And then we go into that paced approach of how we shift it.
Kim Meninger
Yeah. And I want to go back to what you said earlier, too, about starting with your core values and your core needs. And whenever I think about core needs, especially as it relates to women, but certainly for, for any gender, it can be hard to access that I think core values might be a little bit easier to access. But when it comes to needs, I think we tell ourselves lots of stories about what we quote, unquote, should need, or we suppress our own needs, because we're taking care of others. And so I wonder, how do you how do you even crack open the you know, that safe that these things have been stored in because I think that a lot of it is, I should just be grateful I sometimes we tell ourselves that our needs are inappropriate in some way.
Kamini Wood
Yes, that comes up a lot, where the response to the workaround core needs and identifying them, there's a real fear of maybe being perceived as needy, like, oh, I can't have these needs, because now I've become needy. And if you're a high achiever, that's one thing we don't want is to be considered needy, we want to be the one providing and doing and producing. So there is almost like this door that's been shut on those needs. And when we do take care of others, we tend to overfunction and make sure that they're okay, I happen to know this as a people pleaser. We don't identify what our needs are. And so really, the workaround that is to slow down and to beyond, you know, I need food to eat and I need shelter. I mean, yes, those are basic human needs. It's what do I specifically need in order to continue to move myself forward? So is it I need to be heard, I need to be respected, I need to be able to share my opinion without, you know, without being judged for it, I need to be seen as the big one. But we, you know, there's a it's really important to slow down and there are several lists out there. But really start asking, What do I and we do this in context of on our own and also in a relationship, I think a lot of times we forget that we need to, it's important to name our needs, even in the context of a relationship. So we don't end up in that codependent dynamic rather than that interdependent dynamic. The, the issue and when we when we are up against that part of us that says, Oh, I can't do that, or I shouldn't do that. It's important, again, to start saying those things out loud to start noticing it. Is it really true that I can't have my needs? What, what is this part of me that doesn't want to specify what my needs are? What's that part trying to accomplish? Because then we start understanding that that part might be fearful of being rejected. A lot of times, we're afraid to say what we need, because there's a fear that the somebody else might not agree with, it might reject us might abandon us, because as humans, we're relational beings. So there's such a big part of us that wants so badly to not lose those other people in our lives. And there's this fear that if I say what I need, they're not going to be okay with it. And that's where we have to start going within and saying, If I don't specify what my needs are, am I even showing up with this person in an authentic way where I'm having a true relationship? Or? Or is it just a masked version of myself? Also, the counter to that as well is, if I can't state what my needs are, is this really a relationship that is beneficial to me in the long run?
Kim Meninger
I think those are such an important points, because for those of us who identify as people-pleasers, right, there is that sense that when you, when you dig deeper into it, the relationship you have is with your masked self, not with your authentic self. Right. And, and I wonder, because I think that this also leads into conversations around boundaries, which are always so challenging to not only create but stick to and I wonder how you think about that in connection to this needs conversation?
Kamini Wood
Oh, they are so intertwined. Because you're absolutely right. Once we say what our needs are, it is so important to be able to communicate what's okay and what's not. Okay. And that is the essence of what boundaries is about. It's being able to communicate what works for us versus what doesn't and being okay, with sitting in that uncomfortability where somebody might not react the way that we would want them to. It's reminding ourselves that people who are meant to be in our, our lives, we'll sit with that uncomfortability and work through it with us until we come to that common ground. The people who aren't willing to do that, first of all, were the people who were benefiting from our lack of boundaries in the first place. And second of all, it invites us to ask ourselves, are we, are we growing with that relationship? Or is that relationship not actually healthy for us? And all of this starts off with saying what our needs are. And I that's why I say it's usually the case where we are so averse to stating what our needs are because we're afraid of what the repercussions will be in relationship to other people. Boundaries themselves, though, allow us to have healthier relationships in the long run, because we're being who we need to be. And we're allowing the other person to understand who, what it is that we need. So now when we're in relationship, it is a truer, more authentic relationship we are in that we are relating to each other from a place of understanding, versus from a place of versions of ourselves. It also invites the other person to share what their needs are, right? So as we're communicating that the other person can do the same thing. And that's how we have that negotiation and find that common ground with each other.
Kim Meninger
Yeah, and I think about just to add another level of complexity to this theme because I wholeheartedly agree with you. And I also think about the scariness around it, especially if it's not something we've been doing for a while. And I think that there's sort of these two, two dynamics, not to oversimplify, but the, the two that I think about well, as it relates to the personal and the professional. So you're absolutely right, that those two are intertwined. When I think about boundaries, I think the fears might look a little different. So on the personal side, it's that fear of losing that person, right? We've established this dynamic. And if I change anything, they're not going to like me anymore, or they're going to leave or you know, something terrible is going to happen. On the professional side. I think a lot of it stems from power. And this sense that I don't have the right to ask for what I need because my boss' needs are higher up on the hierarchy than mine are. Or if you know, you go even further than that my boss's boss leader, whoever's asking me to do something that's out of alignment with my needs, their needs are higher priority than mine. Right. So. So I think, you know, the, I think we lose a bit of our own personal power when it comes to the way we view some of these different situations. And I wonder if you have thoughts on that, too.
Kamini Wood
That's such a great point. Because I do think that both are our fear, though, fear of abandonment of the person leaving our life in terms of a personal perspective, and then fear of being abandoned by our boss, or by the company itself, if we state what our needs are. And so it's, first of all, let me just say that boundaries themselves, I don't think it's set enough when we start exerting them and speaking on them, it's going to be uncomfortable. You know, a lot of there's a lot of talk out there about boundaries. And I don't think what is really just put out there is an acknowledgment that, yes, it's not going to be easy, it's not a cakewalk. It is also equally important to recognize that, from a personal perspective, if we don't go through that icky, gross, like uncomfortability, we can't actually grow. I mean, the best metaphor out there is the one of a butterfly or the caterpillar becoming the butterfly, Caterpillar sits in its own goo until it becomes the butterfly. And I know that that metaphor seems kind of chintzy. At times, it's like really you want me to sit and do yes, we kind of have to go through it. You know, life is I mean, that's the human experience, there's going to be the achiness. On a professional side, I do think that there's a little it's it's slightly more nuanced, because there is I mean, we, most of us have to work for a living in order to provide for our family. So that fear of doing something setting a boundary that could potentially, you know, keep us or allow us to lose our job or lose that livelihood essentially, is extraordinarily scary. So it's important to recognize that it's equally important to ask ourselves, if we don't we're in a position where we are not able to communicate what works for us and what doesn't in the sense that we're finding ourselves in a toxic environment. That's the invitation to say, maybe this particular environment is not meant for me and I, while I'm here, I can still look for another opportunity where I can voice what my boundaries are. That's number one. The second one on a personal perspective, or a professional perspective, is to just step back and ask, What do I feel comfortable, you know, discussing and do it again, break it into smaller steps because sometimes the big boundary feels too big from a professional standpoint. So can you break it down into smaller a And we're going to the smaller bite size in order to move our way towards potentially getting, because the thing about boundaries, it's like, the metaphor that I use that for boundaries is when you, it's like throwing a pebble into the water, and there's all these ripples, but eventually the water comes back down. It's the same concept with boundaries. So on a professional perspective, we may not want to throw a big boulder into the water, we might want to throw small pebbles and allow those smaller ripples to settle down and then maybe see where we are and then see if there's another boundary, we want to separate another pebble, right? And allow the pebbles to eventually grow in size and size as we start readjusting whatever that professional perspective is. Does that make sense like that? I'm describing that
Kim Meninger
I like that. I like that a lot. And you know, you're making me think about too. So one of my favorite definitions of assertiveness, because I think a lot of times for those of us who have been people pleasers for a long time, we think of assertiveness as being more on the aggressive end of things is that if you think of passive as being somebody who put who prioritizes everybody else's needs and denies their own. And if you think of somebody who's really aggressive as prioritizing their own needs, over everyone else's, I'm just gonna steamroll over you to meet my own needs. Assertiveness is really about prioritizing my own needs, at the same time that I prioritize someone else's needs, right? So it becomes a bit of a negotiation. And as you're talking about boundaries, I'm thinking, obviously, this requires a certain amount psychological safety. But we're all driven by our own fragile egos. And so sometimes if the fear is I'm going to come across as though my needs are more important than this other person's needs. It's actually made, right? Like, what I'm hearing you say is that this is what's really important to you right? Now, here's something that's important to me, how can we get to a place where we both feel like our needs are being met?
Kamini Wood
Exactly. And now, not only are we exerting boundaries, we're also demonstrating effective communication.
Kim Meninger
Exactly. And it doesn't look like I'm dismissing you, right? I know that there's something that you want here, too. And I'm inviting you into a conversation where we can work this out together.
Kamini Wood
Yes. Yes. To be fair, those of us who can bring that into even our parenting, yeah, helpful.
Kim Meninger
That's a big, big source of this as well. And even our parenting, like us as children with our parents.
Kamini Wood
Oh, yes. Yes, yes.
Kim Meninger
A lot of opportunities to do this work. But I like the way you talk about the small pebbles too because it is, it is really scary. And I'm glad you acknowledge that there is no easy way to do this. And if you start with the biggest Boulder, you're not going to do it, right? It's just not gonna, not gonna work for you, it's not gonna work for anybody else. And so taking those baby steps, building those muscles over time is going to make it much easier for everybody involved.
Kamini Wood
Yeah. And I love your example of assertiveness versus aggressiveness, because those individuals who might be recognizing that they've really struggled with over-giving or over-functioning and not speaking up, you know, one of those pebbles could just be a boundary with oneself where it's, I'm going to my boundary is around speaking up my opinion about and then pick something small. And then that's a way that you you're holding that boundary for yourself, and you're also holding that boundary with somebody so that I guess I am going to speak my opinion about this particular whatever the subject may be. It's a way to start building a boundary of self-boundaries others and also lean into what assertiveness can look like to break down the belief that assertiveness might mean aggressiveness. How do we reframe that assertiveness could mean for me today, assertiveness means I'm going to speak by opinion about what type of food I want for dinner. Yes. Excellent, wonderful. And then you build off of that. Yeah,
Kim Meninger
I think that's a really good example. And it reminds me too, of an article I read recently that was talking about we think we're making people happy when we are being unwilling to share our opinions on things and actually people get frustrated by that, right? So if someone says like, what do you want for dinner? Oh, I don't care that actually makes the other person's job harder. Right? So I just experienced this with my oldest son the other day, he asked me where I wanted to grab breakfast, I said, I don't know whatever you want. And he's like, Oh my gosh, just decide.
Kamini Wood
So I think that it's helpful to, to remind ourselves that even when we think we're pleasing other people, we're not achieving that goal. So it's better to go back to the basic values of needs.
Kim Meninger
I've actually such an amazing conversation, Kamani, I really appreciate your insights. And I'm sure there are others who would love to know where they can find more of you and in the world, what other resources you have available.
Kamini Wood
They can find me on the web at kamaniwood.com. And as a matter of fact, if you hop over to my website, there is the ability to download a free ebook on limiting beliefs. So in case that's helpful, and then also I'm on Facebook and Instagram under the handle. It's authentic me.
Kim Meninger
Oh, I love it. Thank you so much for being here. I so appreciate your work and having the chance to have this conversation with you.
Kamini Wood
Thank you for having me.